Limited Atonement

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 11/23/2017 at 8:07 PM, Robert William said:

Simple, all does not mean all all the time.

 

God's peace shroud pastor James Kennedy's soul. Thank you for sharing his video here. 

Is this discussion then among Calvinists, or Calvinism's teachings?

[Robert William]

On 11/21/2017 at 12:40 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

You are correct, I do not support Calvinism either.  Limited Atonement means Jesus saving work on the cross was just enough to save the predestined elect.  You and I see this as utter nonsense.  Jesus death on the cross and subsequent resurrection was enough to save ALL mankind who freely accepted that they could not save themselves.  Jesus is our free will choice and our salvation, by God's grace through our faith in Him.

There can be no other way, the natural man (Born of natural birth) does NOT NOT receive the thing of God, your view of God looking into the future to see who would choose Him is nonsense.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Robert William]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:19 AM, enoob57 said:

Your functioning in a false light where you place the onus upon God when God has placed the onus on man ... human responsibility is replete from the Genesis thru Revelation. It isn't a work it is being...

Yes, ALL humans are responsible, the problem is that the natural man considers the things of God to be foolishness.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Robert William]

On 11/23/2017 at 5:20 PM, ytLiJC said:

 

very good passages, but do we understand them correctly?!

what if each of us save oneself but don't work for overall salvation in the true God, and as a result of mass service to the law of egoism, which is the law of the "darkness", many suffer and die in the hands of the wicked one?!, because why did the Lord, Jesus, come in the world - to please Himself or to save humankind?!

Romans 15:1-9 (NHEB) "Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each one of us please his neighbor for that which is good, to be building him up. For even Christ did not please himself. But, as it is written, "The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me." For whatever things were written before were written for our instruction, that through patience and through encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Now the God of patience and of encouragement grant you to be of the same mind one with another according to Christ Jesus, that with one accord you may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore accept one another, even as Christ also accepted you, to the glory of God. Now I say that Christ has been made a servant of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given to the fathers, and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, "therefore I will give praise to you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.""

because if it was felicitous/possible for God to cause there to be egoistic salvation to abundant and eternal life, wouldn't He do it?!, but He knows that egoism is the main characteristic of the "darkness" and that it leads to "death", which is why He says "love your neighbor even more than yourself", which is the most important Commandment of God

James 2:8 (NIV) "If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.",

Galatians 5:14 (ISV) "For the whole Law is summarized in a single statement: "You must love your neighbor as yourself."",

1 Corinthians 10:23-33 (NIV) "I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. No one should seek their own good, but the good of others... Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved."

and in Scripture there is even something like a scientific explanation for why we should work for overall salvation in the true Lord God

Matthew 7:12 (NLT) "Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets."

because if we don't work for salvation for our neighbor/cohabitant in this cycle of eternity, nor will others work for our salvation in next/future cycles of eternity, because there is an eternal circle of existence, positions of and events with the souls - an inevitable circle of eternal cycles, or, as it is called in the biblical scriptures, "eternal judgment" (Hebrews 6:2)...

Blessings

1. Paul was preaching to the Beloved Bretheran.

2. What does all have to do with salvation?

3. How does that prove that the natural man can or desires to embrace the gospel when scripture teaches the opposite?

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[ytLiJC]

23 hours ago, Robert William said:

1. Paul was preaching to the Beloved Bretheran.

2. What does all have to do with salvation?

3. How does that prove that the natural man can or desires to embrace the gospel when scripture teaches the opposite?

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

2. if there is no salvation for some souls, then will it be good for us if we are not any of those who are saved?! - if i or any of my colleagues suggest someone going through/being afflicted with a difficult task, our boss usually says "why then not you?"

3. that is why there is speech about "jews" and "gentiles" in the Bible, i.e. (about) religious and irreligious people, because God has determined there to be two main categories of people, spiritual servants and ordinary users, just as there have been rulers and subjects, doctors/physicians and patients, etc.

John 4:22 (NLT) "salvation comes through the Jews"

Blessings

Edited December 3, 2017 by ytLiJC

[Robert William]

21 minutes ago, ytLiJC said:

 

2. if there is no salvation for some souls, then will it be good for us if we are not any of those who are saved?! - if i or any of my colleagues suggest someone going through/being afflicted with a difficult task, our boss usually says "why then not you?"

3. that is why there is speech about "jews" and "gentiles" in the Bible, i.e. (about) religious and irreligious people, because God has determined there to be two main categories of people, spiritual servants and ordinary users, just as there have been rulers and subjects, doctors/physicians and patients, etc.

John 4:22 (NLT) "salvation comes through the Jews"

Blessings

Salvation comes through Yshuua, not by any human.

  Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Neither is salvation achieved by good works.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[enoob57]

23 hours ago, Robert William said:

Yes, ALL humans are responsible, the problem is that the natural man considers the things of God to be foolishness.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Then you must go back to original sin Adam committed and you must contend with these verses
Ezekiel 18:20-24 (KJV)
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 [21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
 [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
 [23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
 [24] ¶ But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[brakelite]

Several points.

 Christ died for all men. He 'died for all' and tasted 'death for every one'. 2 Cor.5:14; Heb. 2:9. At Christ's baptism the Father accepted the human race in Christ. Matt.3:17. Therefore He is already the Savior of all men. John 4:42. No-one can or should doubt that he/she has been accepted in the Lord. 1 Tim. 4:10...especially of those that believe.

Our salvation does not depend on our initiating a relationship with Him...it depends on our believing/responding to the 'relationship' He has already initiated with us.

Christ has abolished death (2Tim.1:10) since none need be lost unless he chooses to reject what Christ has already accomplished on his behalf the only reason he can be lost is his unbelief. John 3:16-19

All are redeemed, but not all have accepted redemption. Many say to Christ...we will not have this man to reign over us....and they thrust the blessing of God away from them. But redemption is for ALL. All have been purchased with the precious blood...the life...of Christ, and all may, if they choose, be free from sin and death.

In seeking us, (there is no parable of the lost sheep seeking its shepherd), Christ came all the way from the throne of the universe to where we are, taking upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. Thus He is a Savior "nigh at hand,not far off". He is the "Savior of all men" even "the chief of sinners". But sinners have the freedom to refuse Him and reject Him.

Edited December 4, 2017 by brakelite

[Debp]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:07 AM, Robert William said:

I did read what you wrote, you said Jesus Atoned for ALL humans, that's a false teaching of universal salvation.

Jesus died (and rose) for all people,  but not everyone will accept His gift of salvation.

[ytLiJC]

23 hours ago, Robert William said:

Salvation comes through Yshuua, not by any human.

  Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Neither is salvation achieved by good works.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

it's not exactly so

if e.g. St Paul didn't cast out the evil spirits from all those hundreds of demon-possessed people and didn't heal all those hundreds of sick people he came across, would they be delivered from the demons and illnesses?!

Matthew 24:22 (Aramaic) "If those days are not cut short no one would live, but because of the chosen ones, those days will be cut short."

had the Saints done evil?!, where in the Bible can you read that any Saint of God had done evil or committed unrighteousness (after he became a Saint of God)?!

so if the Saints had done best things for others, hadn't They done good works?!, and if salvation couldn't be achieved by good works, why did They do all those good things for others?!

James 2:12-26 (NHEB) "So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him? And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food, and one of you tells them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled;" and yet you did not give them the things the body needs, what good is it? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. Yes, a man will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder. But do you want to know, foolish man, that faith apart from works is useless? Wasn't Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness;" and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In like manner was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.",

James 4:13-17 (NHEB) "Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow let us go into this city, and spend a year there, trade, and make a profit." Whereas you do not know what tomorrow will be like. What is your life? For you are a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. For you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will both live, and do this or that." But now you glory in your boasting. All such boasting is evil. To him therefore who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin."

Blessings

Edited December 4, 2017 by ytLiJC