Who do you think negotiates the treaty in Daniel 9:27?

[Dennis1209]

On 11/23/2017 at 6:12 AM, Psalms37:4 said:

You're actually right Dennis, definitely on the right track. Israel's next and final war before the tribulation will happen next year. This is actually mentioned in Psalm 118 and Isaiah 26. It'll be an overwhelming war, one she can lose if not for the help Israel will receive. 

Psalm 118:10-14 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ All nations surrounded me,
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹¹ They surrounded me,
Yes, they surrounded me;
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹² They surrounded me like bees;
They were quenched like a fire of thorns;
For in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹³ You pushed me violently, that I might fall,
But the Lord helped me.
¹⁴ The Lord is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.

 

Isaiah 26:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² Lord, You will establish peace for us,
For You have also done all our works in us.
¹³ O Lord our God, masters besides You
Have had dominion over us;
But by You only we make mention of Your name.
¹⁴ They are dead, they will not live;
They are deceased, they will not rise.
Therefore You have punished and destroyed them,
And made all their memory to perish.
¹⁵ You have increased the nation, O Lord,
You have increased the nation;
You are glorified;
You have expanded all the borders of the land.

¹⁶ Lord, in trouble they have visited You,
They poured out a prayer when Your chastening was upon them.
¹⁷ As a woman with child
Is in pain and cries out in her pangs,
When she draws near the time of her delivery,
So have we been in Your sight, O Lord.

 

It'll be a huge battle for them and she will sustain heavy loses, particularly from the north, but ultimately at the end Israel will win the war. Israel will be attack from all sides, heaviest from the north, but at the end she 'll be victorious and will expand her borders in all directions. This war will be as significant and will have as great an impact on Israel as the 6-Day war in 1967 and the war of Independence in 1947-49. 

This war will answer Bill Salus' theory on the inner ring nations, Israel's neighboring countries immediately surrounding her.

This war is also vaguely mentioned in Jeremiah 25 in one single verse where it's suppose to happen just before the tribulation, the 70 year mark. It's hard for anyone to catch this one verse in Jeremiah 25 unless one already knew about the prophecy from other scriptures in the bible.

And if anyone is wondering if Jeremiah 25 was a prophecy about the 70 year exile from the Babylonian captivity, no this is a prophecy of our time, a "second 70 year period" of Israel just before the tribulation. 

Jeremiah 25:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the Lord, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 25:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

⁹ I will soon send for all the tribes of the north.” This message is from the Lord. “I will soon send for King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He is my servant. I will bring those people against the land of Judah and against the people of Judah. I will bring them against all the nations around you too. I will destroy all those countries. I will make those lands like an empty desert forever. People will see those countries, and whistle at how badly they were destroyed.

 

 

EDIT:

As for Damascus, I see this happening too. I can't say as firmly here so there's some speculation as I can't find other scriptures pinpointing the timing of it's fulfillment, but I do very much believe Isaiah 17 will finally be fulfill next year. There's also a possibility Israel's northern border will expand into Damascus. If not by the next war, definitely by the end of the tribulation. Israel's borders will expand twice: once before and again after the tribulation fulfilling God's promise to Abraham. I've always told others not to expect Isaiah 17 to happen till you see Israel drawn into a war in Syria. The purpose of the Syrian civil war is to bring in directly or indirectly all the nations that will clash in the Middle East during the tribulation. Israel is the last player. Once you see Israel declare war and fight in Syria, the fulfillment of Isaiah 17 is visibly on the horizon because it mentions a war in Syria involving Israel. One enemy Israel will be fighting in Syria when she goes to war is Basher Al-Assad and his government.

 

Isaiah 17:1-3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

17 This is a message about Damascus:

“Damascus is now a city, but it will be destroyed.
    Only ruined buildings will be left there.
² People will leave the cities of Aroer.
    Flocks of sheep will wander freely in those empty towns;
    there will be no one to bother them.
³ The fort cities of Ephraim will be destroyed.
    The government in Damascus will be finished.
Those left in Aram will lose everything,
    just like the people of Israel,” says the Lord All-Powerful.

 

ISRAELI OFFICIAL: IF IRAN EXPANDS IN SYRIA, WE'LL BOMB ASSAD'S PALACE

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-Official-If-Iran-extends-in-Syrian-well-bomb-Assads-palace-503597

 

Israel Threatens To Bomb Assad's Presidential Palace

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-29/israel-threatens-bomb-assads-presidential-palace

 

Yeah. Based on prophecy, biblical patterns and biblical numerology, I have a deep seeded feeling 2018 could be a very prophetic year? Even from a secular viewpoint, the middle east and the world for that matter just keeps going from bad to worse. It's amazing how fast the three major players (Russia, Iran and Turkey) have made pacts and alliances. One statistic I found interesting, based on percentages in Russia's military, general population, breeding program and migration... One could almost consider Russia now an Islamic nation.   

I'm yet puzzled what role North Korea will play in end-time events if any, or a trigger that sets things in motion. North Korea and Iran are good buddies and cooperating together. At this moment in history, North Korea and the one sandwich short of a picnic, little Pillsbury Dough Boy, are global threats. It will be interesting to see how Trump deals with N. Korea and I suspect whatever is going to happen will come about shortly.I don't see Lil Rocket Man postponing his plans once he gets situated unless we start sending over plane loads of cash?  

If we have this conversation one year from now, I wonder what we would be talking about?

[Psalms37:4]

19 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yeah. Based on prophecy, biblical patterns and biblical numerology, I have a deep seeded feeling 2018 could be a very prophetic year?

Oh yeah. Things are now converging fast like the stage is set and almost ready to go. Just the main actor (Israel) needs to take center stage and we're ready to go.

 

Quote

Even from a secular viewpoint, the middle east and the world for that matter just keeps going from bad to worse. It's amazing how fast the three major players (Russia, Iran and Turkey) have made pacts and alliances. One statistic I found interesting, based on percentages in Russia's military, general population, breeding program and migration... One could almost consider Russia now an Islamic nation.  

I saw that earlier this year. That was prophetic.

Syria deal draws Iran into alliance with Russia and Turkey

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syria-deal-draws-iran-into-alliance-with-russia-and-turkey/2017/01/24/5336057c-e199-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?utm_term=.c7081dddfd3b

 

 

Quote

I'm yet puzzled what role North Korea will play in end-time events if any, or a trigger that sets things in motion. North Korea and Iran are good buddies and cooperating together. At this moment in history, North Korea and the one sandwich short of a picnic, little Pillsbury Dough Boy, are global threats. It will be interesting to see how Trump deals with N. Korea and I suspect whatever is going to happen will come about shortly.I don't see Lil Rocket Man postponing his plans once he gets situated unless we start sending over plane loads of cash?  

If we have this conversation one year from now, I wonder what we would be talking about?

Just a wild guess, purely speculation on my end as none of this is mentioned in the bible. I think this rhetoric between Trump and Kim Jung is something God is doing to prepare America to develop a more updated and reliable nuclear defense system for the huge nuclear war this country will face against a Russian, Iranian and North Korean alliance during the tribulation. 

It'll finally end the cold war between Russia and the US, and Trump will get his war against Iran and North Korea. I'm just not sure Trump knows Russia will also be in the picture siding with NK and Iran.

By the way, have you ever heard of George Washington's Vision of America in the end times?

 

 

[WilliamL]

Daniel 9:24-27 is history. Vespasian confirmed the covenant with all those Jews who did not rebel against Rome -- and made war with the rest. All described by Josephus.

Nothing in this passage speaks of the time of the end, the latter days, the resurrection of the dead, or any other demonstrably End Time event. The city destroyed was Jerusalem (70 AD, in the midst of the 7-year Jewish War of 66-73), the temple destroyed was Herod's, the blood-sacrifices that ended were Mosaic.

[Last Daze]

11 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Daniel 9:24-27 is history. Vespasian confirmed the covenant with all those Jews who did not rebel against Rome -- and made war with the rest. All described by Josephus.

Nothing in this passage speaks of the time of the end, the latter days, the resurrection of the dead, or any other demonstrably End Time event. The city destroyed was Jerusalem (70 AD, in the midst of the 7-year Jewish War of 66-73), the temple destroyed was Herod's, the blood-sacrifices that ended were Mosaic.

I've always been concerned about the lack of any corroborating scripture for a future seven year whatever.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Daniel 9:24-27 is history. Vespasian confirmed the covenant with all those Jews who did not rebel against Rome -- and made war with the rest. All described by Josephus.

Nothing in this passage speaks of the time of the end, the latter days, the resurrection of the dead, or any other demonstrably End Time event. The city destroyed was Jerusalem (70 AD, in the midst of the 7-year Jewish War of 66-73), the temple destroyed was Herod's, the blood-sacrifices that ended were Mosaic.

It's interesting how things can kinda fall to the wayside. Just happens. Now I don't pretend to understand everything, and I don't think I have all that much insight. I just read and believe. So what I see is the end of the age mentioned as well as the beast.

 

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The above verse speaks about 'THE end'. This smacks of the end of the age but it's not so convincing to me. You either, I assume. The next verse has better evidence.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the above the 'he' only confirms an existing covenant. A covenant already exists that 'he' strengthens but does not create or negotiate. Further 'he' only lends support for 7 years. Then, in the middle of the week, the A of D occurs. In the time of Vespasian the temple was  destroyed and the sacrifice and oblation ended and no opportunity for the A of D to be placed on the altar. Remember? The Temple was burned to the ground in the bloodlust of the Roman legions under Titus before Vespasian would have time to negotiate any treaty, and well before the middle of the week abomination as demanded by the prophecy.

So the 'he' in 9:27 would have to lend support to an existing covenant for a specified period of time, and 3.5 years later stop the Temple rituals and desolate the Temple with abominations. Vespasian could not fulfill all these conditions. Maybe this all speaks to Antiochus IV, but not Vespasian. And I don't think Antiochus fulfilled all the conditions of the prophecy either but would have to check on that to be sure.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I've always been concerned about the lack of any corroborating scripture for a future seven year whatever.

Well...Jesus said the A of D will occur signalling great tribulation will begin. The A of D Jesus referred to is the one spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Jesus specified this.

If Daniel said the A of D occurs in the middle of the week then there would be a half week following this as everyone will agree. But there must also be a first half or how would anyone know when the middle occurs? Also, if there is no week at all, then no middle of the week would exist. But the midst of the week must exist as we are told by the Lord to look to the A of D as spoken of by Daniel the Prophet. To wit:

 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The above is what Daniel said about the A of D. Jesus told us to look to this for the explanation of the A of D.

Covenant confirmed for 7 years, 3.5 years A of D occurs, etc. Also, the Temple must be constructed. It's necessary for the 7 years to occur as the Temple must be constructed before the midpoint. Not only for construction but time to establish all the ritual concerning sanctification, purification, etc, and likely all the daily, monthly and yearly requirements of the Law. 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Well...Jesus said the A of D will occur signalling great tribulation will begin. The A of D Jesus referred to is the one spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Jesus specified this.

If Daniel said the A of D occurs in the middle of the week then there would be a half week following this as everyone will agree. But there must also be a first half or how would anyone know when the middle occurs? Also, if there is no week at all, then no middle of the week would exist. But the midst of the week must exist as we are told by the Lord to look to the A of D as spoken of by Daniel the Prophet. To wit:

 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The above is what Daniel said about the A of D. Jesus told us to look to this for the explanation of the A of D.

Covenant confirmed for 7 years, 3.5 years A of D occurs, etc. Also, the Temple must be constructed. It's necessary for the 7 years to occur as the Temple must be constructed before the midpoint. Not only for construction but time to establish all the ritual concerning sanctification, purification, etc, and likely all the daily, monthly and yearly requirements of the Law. 

Yeah, everyone has their take on that passage.  I personally don't see things reverting back to the old covenant.

• When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.  Hebrews 8:13

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Yeah, everyone has their take on that passage.  I personally don't see things reverting back to the old covenant.

• When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.  Hebrews 8:13

Of course we aren't going back to the old ways. Jesus was made manifest. The old ways are done. There exists an entire section of the Jewish population that not only wants the temple but have everything all ready prepared to furnish the temple and dedicate, sanctify, and purify it according to the old ways. Just because a people wants a thing does not make that thing correct or truthful. Because the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrifices renewed does not mean God is forced to return to the Law for justification, nor does it mean the elect can then only be justified by the Law.

The Temple will fulfill a purpose and it has nothing to do with fulfilling the Law, justification, righteousness, truth or purity. 

[Last Daze]

28 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Of course we aren't going back to the old ways. Jesus was made manifest. The old ways are done. There exists an entire section of the Jewish population that not only wants the temple but have everything all ready prepared to furnish the temple and dedicate, sanctify, and purify it according to the old ways. Just because a people wants a thing does not make that thing correct or truthful. Because the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrifices renewed does not mean God is forced to return to the Law for justification, nor does it mean the elect can then only be justified by the Law.

The Temple will fulfill a purpose and it has nothing to do with fulfilling the Law, justification, righteousness, truth or purity. 

Perhaps.  We'll see.

[Diaste]

15 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Perhaps.  We'll see.

Lots of evidence for the preparation of Temple. Furnishings, cornerstone, red heifer, priests in training....even some Arab people are advocating for the Temple. Seems inexorable.