When is the Sabbath?

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

17 hours ago, Teditis said:

My reading/writing abilities and comprehension is far above average actually, so I'm sure that the miscommunication is on your part.

It's your misunderstanding of how Moon Phases work that has you so confused... plus your obsession with the topic itself. You read a

little something on the internet and take it as Gospel-truth, when it isn't. It's a gimmick to sell a book and you follow this false teaching

as if it comes from the Bible, haha. But as the Bible says, people will come to believe in strong delusions in the end times... I'll leave you to it.

I have re-read the thread and want to try and put straight a few things. 

There are two Jewish calendars the ancient one that was used up to the diaspora in 70 AD which was then gradually lost to history due to the reasons I gave in the OP .i.e. the fact the Jews could no longer visually sight the new (waxing crescent) moon from Jerusalem from 135 AD after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt and also because the vast majority of Jews were then living out side of Israel in the Roman empire and beyond and most of them ended up being forced by Constantine in 325 AD to worship on Saturday on the new Julian Calendar's 7 day rolling week, and eventually most simply ended up using the new Julian calendar with its separate 7 day rolling week as a matter of expediency, and as said the Julian Calendar's new 7 day rolling week began on Friday 1st January 45 BC and therefore can not be used to calculate when the Sabbath is. 

Then there is the new modern Jewish calendar created by Hillel in 359 AD in response to the above situation which uses the Mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle which allows all the Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they live but Hillel dropped any notion of trying to get the Jews to go back to using the ancient lunar Sabbath held on every 7th day from new moon day i.e. days 8, 15, 22, & 29 (from new moon day) for all the reasons above and as explained in the OP. 

However since the year 2000 a Jewish American called Nehemia Gordon began to coordinate Aviv barley searches and new crescent moon sightings from Jerusalem. He is now the co-founder of the World Karaite Movement, a Karaite revival group in Israel. Some Christians like myself have recognised the importance of his work and its relevance to the re-establishment of God’s Calendar in the land of Israel, and how it connects to end time prophecy and the soon to be built temple that will use God's calendar.

Any one can easily work out what day, month and year it is on God Calendar, all you need to know is when the new waxing crescent moon can be seen from Jerusalem, this information is freely available to all from a variety of sources, here's one I use:

http://torahcalendar.com/MOON.asp?JDN=2458107&TDAY=1&MNFLG=2

http://torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y2017M9

From this you can work out when the days are in each month and when each Sabbath is. The years are determined by the need for the Barley to be ripe in Israel, as it is needed for the first fruits offering on Day 16 month 1 according to Torah law. If it isn't ripe then the additional 13th month is added. Here is this years calendar for example from another source: 

https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/guide_v2017calendar_year5988_2018.pdf

[Sower]

The great barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

18 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

The great barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it.

No presumption about it just the evidence: 

1. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and lived in Galilee where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Jewish calendar and it's Sabbaths by sighting the new moon from Jerusalem each month and could therefore determine when the Sabbath, new moon and annual feasts were. This is well recorded in History (do you need me to give proof?).

2. After the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt and Hadrian's violent response between 132 - 135 AD which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion in the empire with some 13 legions being sent, (only 3 or 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death. This is well recorded in history and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel (do you need me to give proof?). However, this meant the Jews could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem.

3. Over the successive generation from 70 AD onward these traumatic events forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of empire and beyond, they were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low, (do you need me to give proof of this?). Even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to these poor survivors as there was no way that the monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to know. Basically their whole ancient Hebrew calendar was no longer in effect.

4. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by new Roman Julian calendar that had started in the province of Rome on 1st January 45 BC which was a Friday. However the day before this date was calculated using a completely different ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) (do you need me to give you proof of this?) and which had been used for hundreds years. Thus the new Julian calendar week had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar week, they were totally separate. Can you see this now? 

5. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive. As each generation went by while living and working in the countries of the empire that were using the new 7 day Julian week more and more, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on the original Sabbath according to the ancient Hebrew calendar or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep there new moons or Sabbaths according to their ancient Jewish calendar.

 

They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west; and although they knew this at first,  and it became harder and harder to not fit in with this new working 'rolling' week system. Eventually over these generation the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath was practically lost.   

6. Then in 321 AD Constantine changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday which forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what they thought was the Sabbath by this time and break the Sabbath or become even more impoverished (do you need me to give proof of this?). This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it hasn't ever been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar.

7. In 359 AD Hillel created the new Jewish modern calendar which uses the Mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle which allows all the Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time the new moon day using this calculation is a day out). (Do you need me to give proof of this?). However, Hillel dropped any notion of trying to get the Jews to go back to using the ancient lunar Sabbath held on every 7th day from new moon day i.e. days 8, 15, 22, & 29 (from new moon day) for all the reasons above and as explained in the OP.

8. The ancient lunar Sabbath held on every 7th day from new moon day i.e. days 8, 15, 22, & 29 (from new moon day) is described in the Bible, and can be studied here: 

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

Videos: 

The Creator's Calendar

9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8

15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):

International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls

79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):

Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU

[HarvestLabourer]

Thank you.

Quote

When is the Sabbath?

Three times in a year we are to appear before the Lord.
I take it that Jesus means at least 3 times.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:4

Praise Jesus
Paul

 

[HarvestLabourer]

Verily My sabbaths ye shall keep:
for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations;
that ye may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.
Exodus 31:13

Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
Exodus 23:14

[HarvestLabourer]

1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

And causing a whole host of other people to have to work on the Sabbath as well, whether they even travel from their home or not.  Saturday still wouldn't be right, no matter what, as for just going to church.  To even have a hope of "keeping" the Sabbath, in the way the Bible commands, they would have to go completely off the grid for a 24 hour period.

Thank you, Cobalt.

My longest was 17 days, but 3 days is sufficient.
Don't try more than 3 days until you have done a few.
(I confess, I was an idiot and tried the 40 days for my first one. I nearly died on the first day.)
Oh, the other thing. Don't expect a result every time, especially in the beginning.
Don't beat yourself up if nothing happened, but try again in a week or two,
after having immersed yourself in the scripture again.

We will go three days' journey into the wilderness,
and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as He shall command us.
Exodus 8:27

Come, and let us return unto the LORD:
for He hath torn, and He will heal us;
He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.
After two days will He revive us:
in the third day He will raise us up,
and we shall live in His sight.
Hosea 6:1-2

Bless Jesus
Paul

Edited November 27, 2017 by HarvestLabourer
typographical error

[other one]

Sabbath threads are getting stranger and stranger....

Is it ok if I just say "I don't care when the True Sabbath is?"   

 

Do you start your car on whatever day you think it is.....   that's kindling a fire in the engine and is deserving of a good stoning...

[JohnD]

Technically Saturday.

Practically, under the new covenant, every day.

Sabbath era / age of grace.

We (like old testament priests) work on sabbath.

He has made us a kingdom of priests... Revelation 1:6 5:10

And the Sunday sabbath shim sham is just another Roman Catholic Empire way of sneaking Constantine's sun worship past the guards.

[other one]

11 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Technically Saturday.

Practically, under the new covenant, every day.

Sabbath era / age of grace.

We (like old testament priests) work on sabbath.

He has made us a kingdom of priests... Revelation 1:6 5:10

And the Sunday sabbath shim sham is just another Roman Catholic Empire way of sneaking Constantine's sun worship past the guards.

do we have anyone here that actually thinks that Sunday is the Sabbath?  I don't know, do Catholics believe that Sunday is the Sabbath or just the day we gather to worship?

[JohnD]

6 minutes ago, other one said:

do we have anyone here that actually thinks that Sunday is the Sabbath?  I don't know, do Catholics believe that Sunday is the Sabbath or just the day we gather to worship?

Here? Dunno. Haven't polled anyone.

In the world? Yep. Heard it many times referred to as the Catholic Sabbath or the Christian Sabbath.