Recognizing Christmas

[Justmemyselfandi]

16 minutes ago, MyLordsServant said:

I think you need to do some research before claiming Christmas is not a pagan holiday. It has a deep root in pagan history, and was not even legal until after 1830-1850 in America.

Aside from that, what does any of Christmas's association have to do with the birth of Jesus. Find me one thing. Do snowmen, Christmas trees, reindeer, Santa, lights, elves, etc.? Like I said, Christians throw out the pagan god of Christmas, and throw in Jesus as a substitute.

I understand these things are hard to accept, most Christians don't want to know the truth, nor search for it. Because it's your family tradition and is hard to let go of, with all those happy memories and you don't want to disappoint your kids.

Many will make the bold claim, that "Christmas is not pagan". If you ask them how they know, "Because another Christian said so", and how do they know? The same way you know. 

You are correct in this. The Catholic church co-opted a Roman festival and simply inserted Jesus's name into that festival as a way of bringing the authority of the church over more people.

If you look at it the Christmas tree came from Viking mythology. Most of what is accredited to Christmas came from folklore that precedes the Christian influence into the culture. 

[missmuffet]

10 minutes ago, Justmemyselfandi said:

What bothers me about Christmas is it is a celebration of an event and not of Jesus himself. Then there is the entire matter that he was not born anywhere near that time of the year.

I think what should matter to us is not wither we recognize Christmas but wither God recognizes Christmas because he is the one who defined Christianity and all that it entails. I would think if God would have approved of the day it would not have been confiscated so quickly by commercial interests.

We can claim something is what we claim it to be, whenever and wherever we want, but it is God that makes it sacred and without his power and authority we are just being people making noise.

All Christians should not just celebrate Christmas as an event but as the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the reason for the season. We are not like the secular world and celebrate Santa Clause. If we are celebrating the birth of God's Son why wouldn't God be ok with that?

[missmuffet]

If a person is not comfortable with celebrating Christmas then don't do it. It is your choice. Life if full of choices.

[Justmemyselfandi]

14 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

All Christians should not just celebrate Christmas as an event but as the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the reason for the season. We are not like the secular world and celebrate Santa Clause. If we are celebrating the birth of God's Son why wouldn't God be ok with that?

Gods son did not need to be born at all. He was who he was long before Mary or Joseph even exited. He chose the manner in which he entered into the world just as he choose how he removed himself from it and for the same reason.

 

Ask yourself why God would be support something  he did not command us to do. There is only one event he told us to celebrate and that was the Passover. It is not logical to assume that God would support something just because we call out his name more loudly on that day.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Justmemyselfandi

[Justmemyselfandi]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

If a person is not comfortable with celebrating Christmas then don't do it. It is your choice. Life if full of choices.

Life is full of choices, but it is only the choices that God gave us that matters.  All else is simply window dressing, for our benefit to which we pat our own shoulder in acknowledgment of what we do.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Justmemyselfandi

[MyLordsServant]

31 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

All Christians should not just celebrate Christmas as an event but as the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the reason for the season. We are not like the secular world and celebrate Santa Clause. If we are celebrating the birth of God's Son why wouldn't God be ok with that?

You're missing the point, that Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. 

Either you celebrate Christmas, or you celebrate Jesus' birth. You can't mix Holy with pagan. 

Jesus is not the reason for the season as you say. Jesus was not born in the winter, nor does he have any association with the holiday.

If you're celebrating the birth of God's son like you say, you wouldn't have a need for a tree or santa or reindeer. These are pagan crafted rituals. 

You can keep ignoring the truth of the roots of Christmas, but deliberate ignorance will not be an excuse. I say that in the most humble way I can. I'm not here to take away people's fun or point fingers, but to shine light in the dark corners of Christian tradition and beliefs. 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by MyLordsServant

[Neighbor]

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Do you celebrate Christmas as the birth of Jesus Christ? Why or why not?

I celebrate the incarnation of my Lord  and savior Jesus, his becoming as the babe born of a virgin, and his willing surrender of all His awesome power as creator of all that has been created, to serve His Father's will and to restore many  to grace and acceptability. I marvel in it,  his fleshly body to be hunted, pursued for destruction by all that is evil, as the demons of Satan the fallen one try to deny God His victory over their rebellion against Him.

The observance of the incarnation  of my Lord Jesus is the  time set aside for quiet inner peace, peace and even dependent innocence  like a babe brings to mind in most all of mankind.  And especially that absolute peace in the security that God has provided the way  of my own salvation, and my own new life. 

A very, very, few do not celebrate new life among us. Instead almost all  instinctively know that awesome joy.  Yes I do celebrate the wonders of my creator his incarnation as the babe of a virgin.  Personally, I think He has allowed me ( and others that celebrate in awe his coming as a babe) to know the right season of His birth, it falling at least near Chanukah for reason. Just as Easter Resurrection Sunday is at least near Passover for reason, and perhaps the second coming of my Lord will occur near Rosh Hashanah for reason too. God's awesome power and plan unfolds with certainty known to God the Father.  It is fun to specualte on dates and seasons, but foolishness to argue over it with anyone whose purpose is to be found in their denying Jesus is God.

 I celebrate the certainty, and the hope in it for me. So, I too have appreciation for  the celebrations that occur near this time of year and especially what most Christians call Christmas. (I'm not too fond of that name if I think about it, but hey who asked me?) My heart can sing Hark The Herald Angels Sing any day of the year and it will lift my spirit and warm my very Soul.

Happy birthday Jesus, may there be Peace for Israel.

[Justin Adams]

6 hours ago, Justmemyselfandi said:

If you look at it the Christmas tree came from Viking mythology. Most of what is accredited to Christmas came from folklore that precedes the Christian influence into the culture. 

It is even more diabolical. Check out Semiramis and Nimrod. Check out the origin of the 'yule ham' etc. Others will detract and say it is just an idol, but Jeremiah decries and recounts the nailing upright of a tree and putting decorations on it. Nimrod's lost parts that are worshiped in ignorance today. It was well known in OT times, but since we do not use the OT much we have overlooked many of God's warnings. We say the cross made that unnecessary. There is plenty of documentation about all this. It is not nearly as far fetched as some modern church doctrines!

In the end analysis, the heart of man is desperately wicked and can be swayed easily by man made doctrines and celebrations. The reason why the early church did not celebrate Yeshua's birth is because the pagans did that and they did not want to follow suit. If you read the history as portrayed by the apostles, church fathers and historians, you will get a far clearer picture.
There really is no reason for not studying properly and to wail at me that 'it is not scripture'; well neither is the AIM, or the 'rules of the road', or your local bylaws, or the Constitution - but you follow them hopefully!
 

I do not think Christmas is a 'salvation' issue - however, if you feel called upon to please the Lord God, then you might consider celebrating Yeshua's birth in September. I think the issue really is that it is a pretense to say we honor the Lord God by having our Christmas celebrations in His name.
Why just not have a good time and leave the Lord's name out of it completely. Just honor Him as he has Commanded us and be a witness to all the world of His Saving Grace.

[Debp]

I do enjoy Christmas and, of course, I remember the birth of Christ.

I think it's good.  Anything that can help people to hear about Christ is good.

There are alot of Christmas carols with much meaning played even in stores.  They contain the message of why Christ came... imagine a person that has never heard this, but they hear it through a Christmas Carol.

Others are more likely to accept your invitation to go with you to church around Christmas.  Perhaps that will be their opportunity to hear more of Christ and His salvation.

Also, a mission helping indigenous missionaries reports that people are eager to attend Christmas functions....even Muslims and Hindus go...and they hear the message of Christ.

Also, there are opportunities to buy Christmas cards with the message of why Christ came, or write a note in the card yourself....and give the cards to your neighbors and families.

Instead of debating about Christmas, why don't we all look for ways to tell about Christ at this joyous  time of year?

[Justin Adams]

21 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In the end analysis, the heart of man is desperately wicked and can be swayed easily by man made doctrines and celebrations.

Funny how even the pagans recognize what Jeremiah was hinting at... see below

by Patti Wigington

Updated October 08, 2017

Every year around the winter holidays, people new to Paganism start asking the question about whether or not they can have a Christmas tree — or a holiday tree — in their home.

The short answer to that question is: it's your house, you can decorate it any darn way you like. If a tree makes you and your family happy, then go for it.

The slightly longer answer is that a lot of modern Pagans find a way to blend the Christmas traditions of their childhood with the Pagan beliefs they've come to embrace as adults.

So yes, you can have a family Yule celebration and still have a holiday tree, roast chestnuts on the open fire, and even hang stockings with care by the fire.

HISTORY OF INDOOR TREES

During the Roman festival of Saturnalia, celebrants often decorated their homes with clippings of shrubs, and hung metal ornaments outside on trees. Typically, the ornaments represented a god — either Saturn, or the family's patron deity. The laurel wreath was a popular decoration as well. The ancient Egyptians didn't have evergreen trees, but they had palms — and the palm tree was the symbol of resurrection and rebirth. They often brought the fronds into their homes during the time of the winter solstice. Early Germanic tribes decorated trees with fruit and candles in honor of Odinfor the solstice. These are the folks who brought us the words Yule and wassail, as well as the tradition of the Yule Log!

There a number plants that are associated with the winter solstice season, in a Pagan context, if you don't have the space for a full tree, or if you want a more minimalist approach.

Boughs of evergreens, vases of holly branches and yew, birch logs, mistletoe, and ivy are all sacred to the winter solstice in many Pagan traditions.

MAKE YOUR TREE AS PAGAN AS YOU WANT

In other words, if you want to have a decorated tree, or even just deck your halls with boughs of green things, for the holiday, don't let anyone tell you it doesn't have Pagan origins.

Obviously, you probably won't want to hang a little baby Jesus or a bunch of crosses on it like your Christian neighbors, but there are a ton of other things out there you can use instead.

Suns and solar ornaments - raid the craft stores and find stars to turn into suns

Gods Eyes — make then out of cinnamon sticks and seasonal colored yarn or ribbons

Pipecleaner pentacles — make them out of shiny chenille stems, bent into stars with circles around them

Natural objects like acorns, feathers, holly, mistletoe or pine cones

Lights, lights, and more lights

Colors of the season: red, green, gold and white

Magical items — cups, wands, or daggers

Fertility symbols — eggs, antlers, horns, even phalluses (if you don't mind shocking grandma a bit)

THE TREE AND CHRISTIANITY

Keep in mind that while Christmas itself is, by its very nature, a Christian holiday, the Christian faith doesn't have a monopoly on decorated trees during the winter, as mentioned above. In fact, there are a few Christian denominations that actually object to the decoration of a tree to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

The prophet Jeremiah actually warned his followers not to cut down a tree, bring it inside, and cover it with baubles — because this Middle Eastern practice was inherently Pagan in nature: "Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-4)

Some time later, the English Puritan groups frowned upon such idolatry as Yule logs, Christmas trees, and mistletoe — again, because they were heathen in origin. Oliver Cromwell railed against such practices, saying that such profane activities desecrated a day which should be sacred.