toddlermom Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1980 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 I have seen many people be at the mercy of the "church". I have also seen how the "church" has failed so many people. When I went to a church, several times, actually, and begged for help because my electricity was going to be turned off, they turned me down. Nevermind the fact that I had no money, was making next to minimum wage, and had bills to pay. When someone is poor, the church is supposed to GIVE to them, not take from them. It is not the burden of the poor to give the church ten percent of what they have, because often times, that's the difference between eating for the month or not. I will not let my family starve or go hungry, as I have in the past. You have probably never known hunger. I have for six months. You have probably never slept in a place that had no heat... in the winter. I have. You have probably also never been at the complete mercy of the church and been turned down because they don't feel that you are "worth it". Do I hate the church? No. I hate the evil that I see in it. I give to the church when I can, as I have pointed out, but it's much better to help people that actually need it, rather than ministers that live on $40,000 a year salary. Especially when members of the church are going hungry, but hey, we still have to give that 10% because our minister said it was biblical! Nevermind the fact that he can't fully back that claim up, he said it was so, therefore, it must be. As far as my car is concerned, I bought it for several reasons. Number 1 it was the cheapest new car I could afford. Number 2, it was the safest car that I could afford. Number 3, it got the best gas mileage that I could afford so I could, in effect, save some money. I can't help it that I am young and have no credit, so they decide to screw me over and charge me an outlandish interest rate. I have no control over it. I also can't control how much my car insurance costs. I have never gotten a speeding ticket or any kind of traffic citation, yet I have to pay around a hundred and fifty dollars a month because other young people are stupid. Does this take away from what I can "give" to the "church"? Yes, but remember, I don't view the church as a minister or a pastor and the congregation. I view it as all of the individuals out there in the world that the church is SUPPOSED to be helping out... and they are supposed to be using the money that is "tithed" to them. You can't tell me that the money is well spent, and you can't tell me that I don't give. If I see someone is hungry, I give them food. Not because it's right, but because I've been there. If someone needs a place to stay, I will gladly offer it if I have the ability to. Not because I think it's right, but because I have been homeless before. I will give someone money if I can and if I know that they really need it and they will use it on something beneficial for them as opposed to liquor, cigarettes, or drugs. Will I be likely to give 10% of my earnings to a church I attend in the future? Absolutely not. But that doesn't mean I won't give to people who need it. Don't confuse the two. ??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not that it was any of my business, but thank you for sharing a little bit of your life with me...I will think next time before i assume someones life is like mine. I have been where you have been..but i did trust God...im not saying that you dont I am sorry that you are having a rough time..im not saying that you should listen to what your minister said...i said listen to the bible. No, in the new testement, it says that you will be givin in the measure that you give...i feel that in life we get what we give...and you just might not have gotten yours yet...and that doestn always mean money. again, i think its wonderful that you give to the needy, and im sure God blesses that...i dont want to be legalistic...just dont want to give God excuses...i see now that you are not... I STAND CORRECTED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddlermom Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1980 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 Malachi 3:8-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speechless Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/29/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1968 Share Posted April 21, 2005 When someone is poor, the church is supposed to GIVE to them, not take from them. Should the church give to the poor, who dont give to the church? You have probably also never been at the complete mercy of the church and been turned down because they don't feel that you are "worth it". If that is how this church made you feel, then dont you think there is obviously a problem with that church?? Do I hate the church? No. I hate the evil that I see in it. Perhaps you should be part of the solution, not part of the problem, dont stoop to their level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Malachi 3:8-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fluffy the Cactus Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 When someone is poor, the church is supposed to GIVE to them, not take from them. Should the church give to the poor, who dont give to the church? You have probably also never been at the complete mercy of the church and been turned down because they don't feel that you are "worth it". If that is how this church made you feel, then dont you think there is obviously a problem with that church?? Do I hate the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted April 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted April 21, 2005 When someone is poor, the church is supposed to GIVE to them, not take from them. Should the church give to the poor, who dont give to the church? You have probably also never been at the complete mercy of the church and been turned down because they don't feel that you are "worth it". If that is how this church made you feel, then dont you think there is obviously a problem with that church?? Do I hate the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stepoffaith Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Since we have direct deposit we don't see the pay stub right away. We give from what has been deposited and then when we get our income tax return we tithe from that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddlermom Posted April 22, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1980 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 Should we then also resort back to the practices of the old testament law? Tithing isn't found in the new testament. Money isn't something that everybody can give. Our time and talents are equally as valuable to the Lord. Before I tithe anywhere, and I haven't been to church for a while, I look at the churches financial statement...if I'm allowed to. I have seen some churches with a pastor doing little more than preach a sermon on Sunday, working a full time job (self employed) and living large and getting an abnormous salary from the church. While some in the church (esp. single moms) struggle financially with no help from the church, yet the church chooses to over do the support to the pastor who lives in a mansion. I stayed there only a few months. Rev <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you haven't been to church in a while, then you really have no right to criticize them. Obviously you went to the wrong church. Preachers do alot more than just preach a sermon....do you preach? do you know the prayer and tears that go into preparing a sermon only to get to church and God makes you change it at the last minute? Being a pastor is a full time job in itself..and if the preacher was self imployed, how do you know he's not busting it to "live it large". I am self employed and i work very hard! It's not the church's responsibility to help you pay your bills. What would like them to do? stand at the door and hand out 100 dollar bills on your way out? It really drives me crazy when people wine and complain that the church is not helping them, yet they have done nothing to help the church. you say the preacher just comes in and gives his sermon, but there are people who come in and just take it. Yes, time and talents are important to God, but they dont pay the bill...there still has to be money from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddlermom Posted April 22, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 72 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1980 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 Legalism at it's finest. Fluffy, you can't reason with them. They give their 10% and maintain their comfort zone so of course the poor are obligated to do the same. This camel is gonna take one more stab at the eye of that needle <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I give over my 10% and i dont maintain a comfort zone. I give very sacraficially at times. God keeps blessing me so that i can give more. And by the way, no one is trying to get rich!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bro David™ Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 If you haven't been to church in a while, then you really have no right to criticize them. Obviously you went to the wrong church. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi there, I am not sure I am following your comments here. Since he has not gone to church in a while, he is not fit to answer your comments ? Preachers do alot more than just preach a sermon....do you preach? do you know the prayer and tears that go into preparing a sermon only to get to church and God makes you change it at the last minute? Being a pastor is a full time job in itself..and if the preacher was self imployed, how do you know he's not busting it to "live it large". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sis I intend to become a preacher one day in my life. I hope to do service in God's Ministry. Living it large and serving the Lord, do not go hand in hand has well has you think. When you step into the Ministry and servant life you trust God to provide for even your most daily needs. Not Tithes. God did not in any case say that following Him would be easy. Example being the famous Tent Maker who paid for His journey and life whilst preaching the Word of God everywhere he went. It's not the church's responsibility to help you pay your bills. What would like them to do? stand at the door and hand out 100 dollar bills on your way out? It really drives me crazy when people wine and complain that the church is not helping them, yet they have done nothing to help the church. you say the preacher just comes in and gives his sermon, but there are people who come in and just take it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I do not think Rev: Turmoil was asking for Hundred Dollar Bills from that Church to the struggling single mom. He was on the other hand asking why a well to do preacher was not coming forward to help a member of his congregation. Not Hundred dollars but maybe a, donation to help her through her time of need. Unless you would like to argue that Churches and it's leaders should not do that. He is not preaching His word, it is Gods word I too would deem fit to just walk in and take it. Are you saying we should start paying to hear God's word ? Yes, time and talents are important to God, but they dont pay the bill...there still has to be money from somewhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your lack of faith does indeed astound me. Are you saying that God would not be able to provide for His own House/Church ? I agree that we have to all do our part, if I have any extra money I would deff" give more than I normally do to Gods house. But what I give and what I don't is between me and God. I do not belive I will be cursed. That is what people who have not read the Bible fully would proclaim. Romans 5: 2, 15, 17, 10 [KJV] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand,and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: We are under Grace my dear no longer the law. Galatians 3: 2,3,4,5 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Let people give and share what they can afford. Lets not start judging their lives because you give more than they do. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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