OneLight Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: I think it was only a few like David and Moses all the prophets. But most Israelites did not receive the spirit. When God's Spirit came upon them, they obeyed, and then His Spirit lifted. It was not until Jesus sent the Holy Spirit that His Spirit continued with those who believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I think the difference is that God poured His Spirit out after Pentecost. In the Old Testament times God was more selective in regards to who was filled with the Holy Spirit, and whom the Spirit came upon. That is what the examples I posted indicate to me, that there was a difference before. In regards to the question you asked Wayne about the captives, they were captive until Jesus was risen. He could not lead them out of captivity until after He was resurrected. When God filled Moses and Bezalel with His Spirit, it is nothing like what happened at Pentecost. God filled them both with wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship. It is not like today with His Holy Spirit. I agree about when the captives were set free, but they were set free at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said: "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." - John 7:38-39 "This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" - Galatians 3:2 "For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;" - 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." - Matthew 7:21 Glory to God! Amen. Yes, I know. I was asking only to further the discussion with Wingnut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,485 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,393 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, OneLight said: If God's Spirit always resided in His people of old, then why bother with the Holy Spirit Jesus sent to us? Think about it ... That's right. The O.T. prophets, patriarchs and believers did not have the Holy Spirit permanently indwelling them. The Holy Ghost fell upon them at certain times for specific reasons. As we know that didn't occur until the day of Pentecost for the Jew's and a little later for the Gentiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, OneLight said: When God filled Moses and Bezalel with His Spirit, it is nothing like what happened at Pentecost. God filled them both with wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship. It is not like today with His Holy Spirit. I agree about when the captives were set free, but they were set free at that time. I agree with you in regards to the captives, and I also agree it applied to all of them. I am not trying to be argumentative, this just to me is a very interesting topic. I have heard the distinction made before, and while I certainly agree there is a difference following the advent of Jesus, I still do not see the difference between someone being filled with the Holy Spirit between the Old and New Testaments. I do see this distinction on the numerous examples where it is said the Holy Spirit came upon them, but being filled with or having Him abide in one seems different to me for a reason. In regards to Joshua, scripture says the Holy Spirit was in him prior to him being handed the mantle, so to speak. I also am curious, what you would say in regards to Enoch, who pleased God so much that God took him. Is that possible for someone without the Holy Spirit? Or isn't that somehow equating Enoch's ability to one of works, rather than that of faith which Hebrews attributes to him? I guess the reason Enoch stands out is, how could he have pleased God without the Holy Spirit, when people today who are filled with the Holy Spirit do not please God as much to be taken before death? Again, not asking to be argumentative, but because I think this is a great discussion. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I agree with you in regards to the captives, and I also agree it applied to all of them. I am not trying to be argumentative, this just to me is a very interesting topic. I have heard the distinction made before, and while I certainly agree there is a difference following the advent of Jesus, I still do not see the difference between someone being filled with the Holy Spirit between the Old and New Testaments. I do see this distinction on the numerous examples where it is said the Holy Spirit came upon them, but being filled with or having Him abide in one seems different to me for a reason. In regards to Joshua, scripture says the Holy Spirit was in him prior to him being handed the mantle, so to speak. I also am curious, what you would say in regards to Enoch, who pleased God so much that God took him. Is that possible for someone without the Holy Spirit? Or isn't that somehow equating Enoch's ability to one of works, rather than that of faith which Hebrews attributes to him? I guess the reason Enoch stands out is, how could he have pleased God without the Holy Spirit, when people today who are filled with the Holy Spirit do not please God as much to be taken before death? Again, not asking to be argumentative, but because I think this is a great discussion. God bless All you have to do is look at the differences between the two. God is still the same, but how He dealt with the people were different. I know it may be a long study, but it would be worth your while to research and not take anyone's words for it. Write how God's Spirit led those in the OT and how God's Spirit deals with people after Pentecost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,485 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,393 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I agree with you in regards to the captives, and I also agree it applied to all of them. I am not trying to be argumentative, this just to me is a very interesting topic. I have heard the distinction made before, and while I certainly agree there is a difference following the advent of Jesus, I still do not see the difference between someone being filled with the Holy Spirit between the Old and New Testaments. I do see this distinction on the numerous examples where it is said the Holy Spirit came upon them, but being filled with or having Him abide in one seems different to me for a reason. In regards to Joshua, scripture says the Holy Spirit was in him prior to him being handed the mantle, so to speak. I also am curious, what you would say in regards to Enoch, who pleased God so much that God took him. Is that possible for someone without the Holy Spirit? Or isn't that somehow equating Enoch's ability to one of works, rather than that of faith which Hebrews attributes to him? I guess the reason Enoch stands out is, how could he have pleased God without the Holy Spirit, when people today who are filled with the Holy Spirit do not please God as much to be taken before death? Again, not asking to be argumentative, but because I think this is a great discussion. God bless Don't want to jump between you two, but like it was said, this is an interesting discussion and perhaps I should be a lurker. But, without faith it's impossible to please God. I'm sure the Holy Spirit indwell ed Enoch at the time he was translated. I also truly believe Enoch is a shadow or type of the Rapture, just as Noah, Lot, etc. Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Don't want to jump between you two, but like it was said, this is an interesting discussion and perhaps I should be a lurker. But, without faith it's impossible to please God. I'm sure the Holy Spirit indwell ed Enoch at the time he was translated. I also truly believe Enoch is a shadow or type of the Rapture, just as Noah, Lot, etc. Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Glad you joined in, and thanks for posting that from Hebrews which I was referring to before. I guess that is the question, what did Enoch have faith in, and/or is it possible to have that kind of faith without the Holy Spirit? I mean it would appear that in order to have been taken, he must have had the Holy Spirit, in order to agree with all of scripture. Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, OneLight said: All you have to do is look at the differences between the two. God is still the same, but how He dealt with the people were different. I know it may be a long study, but it would be worth your while to research and not take anyone's words for it. Write how God's Spirit led those in the OT and how God's Spirit deals with people after Pentecost. I never really considered Moses or David being born again when they were alive on this earth. People back then were saved looking forward to the cross, where we are saved looking back to the cross. They went to paradise in the heart of the earth till Jesus died on the cross and took them to heaven. Perhaps they experienced the new birth at that time? I am really not sure how to look at them. I know they are in heaven, but were they born again then, and if not, are they born again now? Those are interesting questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Butero said: I never really considered Moses or David being born again when they were alive on this earth. People back then were saved looking forward to the cross, where we are saved looking back to the cross. They went to paradise in the heart of the earth till Jesus died on the cross and took them to heaven. Perhaps they experienced the new birth at that time? I am really not sure how to look at them. I know they are in heaven, but were they born again then, and if not, are they born again now? Those are interesting questions. I fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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