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da_man1974

The serpent

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I wonder why the serpent was allowed in the garden. If everything was perfect before the fall, why was the serpent able to be there.

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52 minutes ago, Yowm said:

You mean you wonder why God allowed the serpent to be used by the devil?

Wasn't the serpent the devil?

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39 minutes ago, da_man1974 said:

I wonder why the serpent was allowed in the garden. If everything was perfect before the fall, why was the serpent able to be there.

I suggest mostly for my own consideration the possibility and I think the likelihood that the reason was and still is: to serve the will of God for His good purposes.

Further I to date think that: All was not necessarily perfect in the totality of the creation of God, though the fall of man and God's tiring and wrath upon all of His creation had not yet fomented Him onto action against it.

Man Adam, and wo-man Eve, were innocents, unaware; but Satan had already fallen ( at some point) from Heaven and a third of Heaven's other angels with him. Satan though spirit, evidently also of wisdom not innocence, has been created by God, and also wandered the earth after being caste out of the company of God, spending some time going to and fro as is declared within the Book of Job. Satan was allowed annual presence before God with other angels at God's permission (again see Job).

So the snake could well be the beautifully mesmerizing body used by Satan to entice Eve and Adam to follow right with her.

Fallen angels inhabit bodies of flesh from pigs, to humans, why not Satan the fallen one a snake the beautiful creature of the garden?

As I stated, this is mostly for my own consideration; others are welcome to add, correct, change,  as they see fit as I am now encouraged into my own reading and study, along with my present morning read  through Genesis.

 

Thanks for the thread!

 

ps- God is all knowing, just as he has foreknown from before the beginning and predestined all of mankind that will be given to His son and that His son will not lose a one, God also has created those that will fall and fail including Satan and  the fallen Angels. God has created man, and has known all men  from before creation itself.

From that  I also add speculation on my part that  God has also known all the angels from before their creation too. And, He has therefore also foreknown of the battle to put Satan down and show Satan he is not going to rise above His own creator. Further, that Satan  is not needed as company for the pleasure of God his creator. For that reason He created man and saved man that man will also be humbled.

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13 minutes ago, da_man1974 said:

Wasn't the serpent the devil?

Martin Luther concluded and declared he was not, ( See first volume page 185 or 158?, of the works of Luther) that he the devil satan instead occupied and used the snake the beautiful creature. Satan being a created by God angel, was and is still spirit. He used the physical body of the snake.

 However; at Revelation 12   He is described as the serpent and the dragon.

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2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

No, the devil walks doesn't crawl.

The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
(Gen 3:14)
 

The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
(Job 1:7)
 

Well I guess I mean didn't the devil come in the form of a serpent

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24 minutes ago, da_man1974 said:

Well I guess I mean didn't the devil come in the form of a serpent

No.

"A shining one" is a better rendering/ explanation/ closer to what all Scripture says.

As later also - "as if 'an angel of light'" (as if a good angel instead of an evil angel ) ...

Compare with all Scripture,  in harmony with all Scripture .....

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2 hours ago, da_man1974 said:

Wasn't the serpent the devil?

 

Job 41 should clarify that question, also keeping in mind that he is later described as a dragon.  And this passage from Isaiah speaks volumes.

 

Isaiah 27  In that day the Lord with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon that is in the sea.

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2 hours ago, Yowm said:

No, the devil walks doesn't crawl.

The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
(Gen 3:14)
 

The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
(Job 1:7)
 

From the fuller passage comes a question, could Satan "walk" to God to show himself with the other angels? 

On another day the angels came to show themselves before the Lord. And Satan also came with them.  The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been wandering around the earth. I have been going back and forth in it.”

 

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35 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

From the fuller passage comes a question, could Satan "walk" to God to show himself with the other angels? 

On another day the angels came to show themselves before the Lord. And Satan also came with them.  The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “I have been wandering around the earth. I have been going back and forth in it.”

 

 

I think everyone gets so focused on the legs part, the rest is overlooked.

 

Genesis 3:14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
    cursed are you above all livestock
    and above all beasts of the field;
on your belly you shall go,
    and dust you shall eat
    all the days of your life
.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
    and you shall bruise his heel.”

 

Could it be that the phrase on your belly you shall go is figurative, and not literal?  For example, the expression, cut the legs out from under you.  The reason I bring this to attention is the part I bolded and underlined.  What snake eats dust?  All the ones I know of eat insects, mice, or larger living things based on their size and capability.

Verse 15 is interesting, enmity between the serpent and the woman.  And in regards to her offspring, "He shall bruise your head."  I don't believe this is meant literally.  I also think it is important to note what else is said in scripture specifically in regards to satan.

 

II Corinthians 11:14  And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

 

He has to disguise himself as an angel of light, which indicates that is not what his actual physical appearance is.  

God bless

 

 

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7 hours ago, Yowm said:

I would also add that Adam named all the animals which would include the serpent and I see no reason why they were not allowed in the Garden...so why not the serpent?

Just by naming all the animals himself, imagine the intelligence Adam must have had before the fall? 

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