Guest Butero Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 All sin is not willful, just as all sin is not presumptuous, as the Old Testament puts it. People sin without meaning to all the time. They get angry and sin in their anger without even thinking their actions are sinful. They have evil thoughts and they don't realize that makes them unclean in the eyes of a Holy God. That is a far cry from pre-meditating to commit a sin, such as planning a rendezvous with a woman to cheat on your spouse. That is willful sin. If all sins were willful, the Bible wouldn't make a distinction. That is one reason I feel it is a good idea to ask the Lord to forgive my trespasses every day, even those I am unaware of. Sometimes I will do something wrong, and God won't reveal it to me till several hours later, and then I confess it. I have never understood those who want to claim all sins are willful, because they are clearly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Yowm said: Is walking without falling into sin possible in this life? I guess by redefining sin as was done in the OP, anything concerning sin is possible...actually it cheapens God's grace. Brother, the cheapening of God’s grace is exactly what has plagued our modern take on the Christian gospel. It is what the Bible terms ‘turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.... license to sin freely without guilt. Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church over one main error that had taken root in the Catholic Churches at the time. It was the selling of indulgences. These were pre-paid get out of having to go to confession cards, and the church found that they could make a huge amount of money thru their selling them. So if one wanted to kick up their heels, they simply purchased, for a healthy price, an indulgence, and supposedly all was then good between God and them. Sounds disgusting to us as ‘enlightened’ Christians today, right? Well, think about it. When someone is involved in willful sin, where they clearly know it’s wrong, and yet there is no battle going on in their heart, they are doing far, far worse than the indulgence crowd. How is that, you ask? You see, when a man, a follower of the Lord, chooses to sin despite his knowledge that his action put Jesus on the cross, and despite ignoring the discipline of the Holy. Spirit, instead of having to pay for his sin himself with a purchased indulgence, he tells God “Just put it on Jesus’ tab!” Listen.. Willful sin is a revealing of the intent of our heart. If a man persists here, he will not find heaven to be his eternal abode. God has warned us clearly. Willful sinning is spitting in the eye of God, telling Him we love Him and want His forgiveness, but also want His grace to make our willing sins that cost Jesus the pain and humiliation of the cross to make it all okay. Deception lies here, and unless repentance comes, that heart will be hardened to the point that nothing more can be done to rescue it. It is not too late, but the hour is getting shorter. All sin is not willful sin. Willful sin is the ultimate cheapened of God’s grace. Paul in Romans 7 was not a willful sinner. He was a prisoner of sin, and longed to be free from its grip but did not know how to get free. A battle raged in his heart and mind, and no matter how he struggled against it, he lost the battle. His will was overridden by his flesh. As he said “ To will is present with me, but how to do it, I find not” Praise God though, if we will but put off that old nature by faith, to our amazement we will find that God causes us to will AND TO DO of His good pleasure. There is a place in God where we truly have no more consciousness of sins. That should be like a drink of cool water to our parched souls if we struggle with guilt and temptation in the desert of Satan’s withering attacks and accusations. So.... does it? Blessings, Gideon Edited April 5, 2018 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 953 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,584 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,055 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Romans 6 English Standard Version (ESV) Dead to Sin, Alive to God 6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self[a] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free[b] from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Slaves to Righteousness 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2018 Quote Is walking without falling into sin possible in this life? No.. And that is why we all need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for our sins to be covered, so that upon the day of judgement we shall be deemed perfect and acceptable to be with God in eternity.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,190 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 5, 2018 We stand in the place of whole council of God... His Word has been completed for two thousand years. The source of all truth about sin, righteousness, the who when what where why and how of everything necessary for life and Godliness now. It is boiled down into this Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone anything outside of this is not of God's Word! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 953 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,584 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,055 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 5, 2018 18 hours ago, Gideon said: If I am a willing participant when that thought comes into my head, then I agree. But if we have put on our new man, we indeed have the mind of Christ. Fleeting thoughts, temptations to sin, come at us like arrows. If they are sin, and originate from us, we are not new creatures at all. But if we disown the thoughts, hold up our shields of faith and see God quench that arrow to where it does not affect us, have we sinned? Not at all. According to what you are espousing, we can never walk with clean consciences. Truly walking in the Spirit is impossible for our own thoughts condemn us. But in Hebrews we read clearly that once we are cleansed, we are to have no more consciousness of sins. Sadly, the end result of what you say is the best we can do is a Christianity that cannot set one free indeed at all. Jesus, in referring to that freedom made it clear that it is freedom from committing sins. So if a fleeting thought is in itself a sin, we are committing sin by having that thought and we never enter the rest. As well, if you are correct, it is actually impossible to bring every thought into captivity to thexLordship of Christ. Holiness is impossible, pureness of heart is a pipe dream and all Satan has to do is throw a bad thought at us and we are always in a state of repent, believe, repent, believe. That is not what God has promised us. Here is an important question. If we were presented with a way to walk above sin, would we even want it? I think many would rather it stay just like it is because we still have our free will intact so if we choose to sin a little bit, well hey, it is really no different from the thought so why not really do it? God is slowly opening our eyes to the truth. He tells us we can possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. The real issue is not the mechanism as to how this can be accomplished. The real issue is.... do we really want true heart purity? Blessings, Gideon "According to what you are espousing, we can never walk with clean consciences. Truly walking in the Spirit is impossible for our own thoughts condemn us. But in Hebrews we read clearly that once we are cleansed, we are to have no more consciousness of sins." Not at all, for I do not walk in the Jiminy Cricket philosophy of "let your conscience be your guide". I walk in the once and for all atonement for my sins past present and future, by Christ Jesus. I do not sin all the more for the relief either, instead I am a bond-servant of my savior to whom I do all that I do in my own best effort to do so to the glory of God. My thoughts do not condemn me, nor anyone. Each are condemned by the inherited wrath of God against Adam's sin. So I am condemned from before my beginning. I am not saved by my conscience. I am not saved by my works of any merit. I am saved by the grace and mercy of God alone completed by the act of sacrifice made willingly by my savior Jesus. No one is going to successfully accuse and condemn me into worry about my own perfection. I am quite secure in my security in Christ Jesus having been washed white as snow once and for all time and time beyond time by the shed blood of Jesus, that security being known to me by having the Holy Spirit reveal Jesus to me. It is God alone that has saved me from the just punishment I deserve. It is He alone that has reconciled my sin to His perfection. I do not do that myself, and I cannot sustain it myself either. It is all of God alone. I shall not worry a wit, I shall cling to the old rugged cross instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Adstar said: No.. And that is why we all need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for our sins to be covered, so that upon the day of judgement we shall be deemed perfect and acceptable to be with God in eternity.. If what you say is true, why would we be told that He is able to keep us from falling? Why would He tell us that He will cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure? Why would we be told our shields of faith will quench ALL the fiery arrows of Satan, if in truth, that is not even remotely true? Why would God promise us that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist it, and will make a way of escape so that we can go through it unscathed, if in fact, it is either not true, or we don’t take the way of escape because of rebellion? Why would John write to us so that we sin not, and then follow that up with telling us that if we abide in Him, we will not sin.p? Why would Jesus promise us He would make us free indeed and then define that freedom as not committing sins, if it were really not possible? What purpose is the grace of God that teaches us to live soberly, righteously and justly, if it is beyond our ability to do so? Why are we told to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor if in truth, it is impossible? Why are we promised that if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? I applaud any why say to these things “Let God be true and every man a liar”, even if by doing so, it puts them under the judgment of God. I am convinced in the coming days, God will move mountains to insure that every true heart that hungers and thirsts after righteousness WILL be filled. But to those who have no hunger for such a walk pleasing God, where our thoughts and actions are actually transformed by the master potter, where our heart really is pure and our conscience spotless, deception will increase more and more. God looks at the thoughts and intents of each of our hearts. If we sin willfully and hide behind our mantra “We are only human, and after all, no one is perfect” so we can continue in using the blood to forgive us but with no desire to actually be cleansed of our sins, the danger of such a mindset is beyond extreme. Willful sin is a death sentence, and when we finally accept that, God will begin to move and show us how even to be freed fron the grip of sins we battle against but constantly lose to. But no eyes will be opened to those who have no hunger for walking in holiness before him all the days of our lives. We are now entering into the valley of decision, and each of us, by our actions, will choose who we are going to serve. We will either choose to remain in our fleshly lower nature and end up deceived, or, we will cry out to God to set us free indeed just as He promised to do, and He will not disappoint us. He will do exactly as He has promised...CAUSE US to walk as obedient children. And those who love the light will rejoice to see this fulfilled. Blessings, Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted April 5, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 4 hours ago, enoob57 said: We stand in the place of whole council of God... His Word has been completed for two thousand years. The source of all truth about sin, righteousness, the who when what where why and how of everything necessary for life and Godliness now. It is boiled down into this Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone anything outside of this is not of God's Word! And this grace of God you talk about, does it teach us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to love soberly, righteously and justly in this present age? If it does not, and has instead been redefined to mean “God will wink at our sins because of our one time prayer, even if now we have no desire to be freed from the grip of our fleshly nature”, then it is time to re-examine our heart motives. God knows what really is important to us, and in the end, it is those who love the light and who want more than anything to walk in that light so that they can please their Heavenly Father who will be justified and sanctified. Blessings, Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted April 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 513 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,192 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,355 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2018 It is when a person is willing to die rather than to sin, that the meaning of our having “died in Christ” will come alive. For it is when a person sees, that only by their “deaths” will they stop sinning. But “Praise be to God” this is exactly what our salvation in Christ consists of. That when “Christ died we died”. The “old man” has not died, but we have died to him. When this is seen, than the scripture “reckon yourself died” becomes the most blessed scripture ever written. For it is seen that “this” is freedom from our sins. By “reckoning ourselfs died” not to make one dead, but because we “are” died in Christ. So that as scripture says that we might be joined (marriaged) to another. And walk in newness of life. It is absolutely possible to walk where you are not conscious of any sins. For this is what Paul is taking about; 1 Corinthians 4:4 (NASB) For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Sent via BLB app for Apple He says he “conscious of nothing against myself”, meaning he was not aware of any sins he was committing. But than he adds “by this I’m not acquitted” meaning just because he wasn’t conscious of any doesn’t mean there wasn’t any. Than adds “But it is the Lord who examines me” meaning it is the Lotd that’s sees if in truth he has sins or not. It is righteousness that the Lord is after in His people. When His people are brought to the place where doing righteousness in all things is the one thing that is most important to them. It is than that the blessing of God will be poured out. For God waits in righteousness for those willing to walk in righteousness that He might pour forth His blessings. (i.e. Himself) Much love in Christ, Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Quote Is walking without falling into sin possible in this life? You don't fall into sin. You fall into temptation; you choose to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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