Hidden In Him Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 423 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/21/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/16/1964 Share Posted April 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, Yowm said: No, Messiah cut off refers to Jesus' crucifixion. People of the prince to come were the Romans in 70AD, which makes my best estimate Of the antichrist to be a Roman. Oh, I see. Ok, I understand... So do you take the view that the Beast will be a revival of the Roman Empire, in something like a future version of the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden In Him Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 423 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/21/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/16/1964 Share Posted April 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hidden In Him said: Thanks for the response, WN. My question here would be, don't these verses all presuppose they apply only to those who honor God's Lordship? The Antichrist will clearly enter the temple by force, as other Antichrist figures in Israel's past did, in defiance of the Most High God. I'm just saying that the Antichrist will have no need to honor these laws. The people of God will be given into his hands, and he will seek to change the laws (Daniel 7:25)... OH! I see, you are saying that he will presumably enter the temple BEFORE he breaks the covenant. I think that would be the next thing you would have to prove then. I've always assumed he would only fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and other verses after breaking the covenant, at which time he would be under no obligation to any Jewish law, including the need to be a Jew to enter the inner sanctuary. Is there/ are there verses that suggest he will fulfill this prophecy before the covenant is broken? Btw, sorry about all the typos in that one. I think I have it cleaned up now, LoL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden In Him Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 423 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/21/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/16/1964 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Just now, Yowm said: Um, sigh, an undogmatic yes. lol Ok, LoL. I held to this for a long time, too. I eventually started giving thought to the theory the Antichrist would be Muslim and the Beast the coming caliphate. This made more sense out of a lot of things for me. But at issue would be some of things we're talking about here. If he would have to be recognized by the Jews as their Messiah, that all but completely eliminates the possibility of him being a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) Just a question here. Why must the worlds messiah be a Jew or Roman?. As I read in Revelation I sea a very powerful political person and the False prophet also one who has much influence and power in the world. Who are the most powerful men in the world today. If this political person at the height of his power could do what ever he wants what would stop him to desecrate the Temple. After all he will think himself as God Edited April 8, 2018 by Mike Mclees 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,644 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said: Just a question here. Why must the worlds messiah be a Jew or Roman?. As I read in Revelation I sea a very powerful political person and the False prophet also one who has much influence and power in the world. Who are the most powerful men in the world today. If this political person at the height of his power could do what ever he wants what would stop him to desecrate the Temple. After all he will think himself as God I agree it could be anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 478 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,565 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 7,644 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Hidden In Him said: Ok, LoL. I held to this for a long time, too. I eventually started giving thought to the theory the Antichrist would be Muslim and the Beast the coming caliphate. This made more sense out of a lot of things for me. But at issue would be some of things we're talking about here. If he would have to be recognized by the Jews as their Messiah, that all but completely eliminates the possibility of him being a Muslim. He could be a muslim. The jews dont recognized him. He takes jerusalem by force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden In Him Posted April 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 423 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/21/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/16/1964 Share Posted April 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: He could be a muslim. The jews dont recognized him. He takes jerusalem by force. The fact that numerous Islamic leaders have called for the complete extermination of the Jews is also one of the selling points of the idea that the Antichrist may be Muslim; that, and the fact that they behead non-believers. There are others - It's been a while since I studied the subject - but those two stand out in my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted April 10, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.31 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 12:25 PM, Yowm said: It would pose a big problem for the Orthodox Jew, but I suppose, so would a Roman. Daniel 9:26 NKJV [26] "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 'People of the prince' who destroyed the Temple were the Romans, so the 'prince who is to come' would also be Roman. That's my best, from Scripture. But it was FROM SCRIPTURE . so its worth a long long look at that . Cause it does say that . the romans were also the ones who taxed the people . So yowm. This is hard to say anything against . heck maybe he will be a roman jew . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted April 13, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 4:40 PM, Hidden In Him said: Is there/ are there verses that suggest he will fulfill this prophecy before the covenant is broken? Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attack him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through.41 He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt, and the Libyans and the Cushites shall follow in his train. 44 But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction. 45 And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him." The word used for south in the Hebrew in this prophecy, is not the typical word used in regards to direction, it is Negev. This to me indicates the king of the south will most likely be Egyptian. What else we see in this passage is that Israel is not included in those he is fighting against, but indicates he is fighting on their behalf against their surrounding enemies, of which only Edom, Moab, and most Ammonites escape. The Jews will see him as the conquering messiah they have always anticipated, delivering them from the threat of foreign invaders. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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