Do we have to do good works to be saved ?

[Willa]

In a word, no.  All we must do is trust in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.  But the thief on the cross did confess Jesus as the Messiah when he asked the Lord to remember Him when He came in His kingdom.   When we are connected to the Vine we will produce the works of Jesus.  It is His sap or Spirit flowing through us which cannot help but produce fruit of one nature or another.  But it may not be the kind of works some people think of.  Not many recognize the confession of the thief on the cross as being a work.    I think of works as something done under the inspiration of or leading of the Holy Spirit.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

No one has really snswer the question. Either we are saved by what works we do or not. First comes salvation then good works come out of a new life in christ. We are saved apart from anyyhing we can do. We become his servants after we are saved. So that does not save us but is our new life of loving God after we are saved.

Wayen.     We saved soley by grace alone or we aint saved .    Their is nothing we can do to earn anything .    But if we aint living it ,  then our faith IS DEAD ,  its not real.

So faith without works IS dead being alone .    I aint talking about someone who comes to Christ on their death bed.  But we could use that as an example

the thief on the cross DID the only work required ,   HE believed JESUS was LORD and that was soley by grace . However if we claim to have real faith , but our walk don't support that

WE lying to ourselves .     THIS is what many a while back were saying , yet we keep being accused of works .    NO,    but no works equals no real guenuine faith either.

FOR if HE is truly in us ,   IT WILL BE SEEN and if we don't obey HIS SPIRIT ,  we aint going to make it either .   HAS to be TO THE END .    Either we follow him to the end

or we simply don't make it .   Its not us earning salvation ,  its simply obeying the grace which did save and saves TO THE END . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Those who do such things are not saved. But by not doing such things does not save you. Only the blood of Jesus saves us from wrath. Once saved those who did such things have already turn from those things. 1 john 3 days those born again does not practice unrighyeousness

I am glad you keep reminding us this .  but make no mistake ,  we KNOW this wayne.   we have for years .    its just since some of our approaches are more grave , like the early

church and just because some of us still warn out to BE HOLY ,  we keep getting accused falsely .    Chief ,  my friend,   IF we don't continue in JESUS to the end ,   HELLFIRE .

People can fall away and many do .    I do not know what scares people so much about that .     It is not LIKE CHRIST who died for us ,   is just waiting for us to make one

mistake so he can say AWAY with you.    IF we truly KNOW HIM ,   IF HE TRULY is in us ,  WE have all we need to walk holy .  FACT .  

However just as since it all began .   People live in the flesh ,   and thus temptations will always come ,   HOWEVER as I said , GOD gives the way OUT of every temptation , HE IS CALLED JESUS

HIS SPIRIT is real  , and on that note ,   may none quench the Spirit .  Another fact .  SIN does harden the heart .

Its why paul said exhort one another daily , lest any does become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin .   FACT .    So let the people WARN out . and exhort .

and remind and stir up.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

16 hours ago, Dan_79 said:

Jesus and his chosen deciples say yes to doing good works.

Paul seems to think differently and preaches faith only.

Perhaps others will say that is incorrect and I would welcome their advice on this myself as Paul is at variance to Jesus and his deciples on certain things which although has not effected my trust in the Lord has led me to search for answers (the truth).

In theory if you abstain from sin you are only left to do good works. A passive good work might be not having been a burden for example. While an active good deed might be discribed as above doing something for somebody that is helpful.

Faith being either strong or weak, without works is said to be dead by some but not by others.

All of it however will be judged according to the Law which God commands and Jesus reiterated this in the NT. Which leads me to look more closer at what I should or should not be doing (and is itself a pro active decision based on choices guided by faith in prophets the Law and God as judge). 

I have absolutely no idea if I am saved or not because I cannot be my own judge (of my complete lifes work/s deeds or actions or how strong or weak my faith is....I simply do not know).

If Im told by man I am saved I might just take my foot off the gas.

If I fear God I will step in line, if not then I don't care and cannot learn to do what is expected.

 

 

 

Someone aint reading much of what paul writes .  that man warned out more against sin and warned how such will not inherit the kingdom than most .

WELL , due to we have most his letters .    Paul and james preached an identical concept .    You saved by faith ,  but it their is no real works ,  ITS LIP SERVICE .  

[Wayne222]

16 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I am glad you keep reminding us this .  but make no mistake ,  we KNOW this wayne.   we have for years .    its just since some of our approaches are more grave , like the early

church and just because some of us still warn out to BE HOLY ,  we keep getting accused falsely .    Chief ,  my friend,   IF we don't continue in JESUS to the end ,   HELLFIRE .

People can fall away and many do .    I do not know what scares people so much about that .     It is not LIKE CHRIST who died for us ,   is just waiting for us to make one

mistake so he can say AWAY with you.    IF we truly KNOW HIM ,   IF HE TRULY is in us ,  WE have all we need to walk holy .  FACT .  

However just as since it all began .   People live in the flesh ,   and thus temptations will always come ,   HOWEVER as I said , GOD gives the way OUT of every temptation , HE IS CALLED JESUS

HIS SPIRIT is real  , and on that note ,   may none quench the Spirit .  Another fact .  SIN does harden the heart .

Its why paul said exhort one another daily , lest any does become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin .   FACT .    So let the people WARN out . and exhort .

and remind and stir up.   

Your not more grave. You make it part,of working toward salvation. You need to warn those who practice sin to cheack themself to see if there in the faith. You dont even talk on this bosard about anything else. I talk and remind about the finish work of christ on the cross. 

[Wayne222]

34 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Wayen.     We saved soley by grace alone or we aint saved .    Their is nothing we can do to earn anything .    But if we aint living it ,  then our faith IS DEAD ,  its not real.

So faith without works IS dead being alone .    I aint talking about someone who comes to Christ on their death bed.  But we could use that as an example

the thief on the cross DID the only work required ,   HE believed JESUS was LORD and that was soley by grace . However if we claim to have real faith , but our walk don't support that

WE lying to ourselves .     THIS is what many a while back were saying , yet we keep being accused of works .    NO,    but no works equals no real guenuine faith either.

FOR if HE is truly in us ,   IT WILL BE SEEN and if we don't obey HIS SPIRIT ,  we aint going to make it either .   HAS to be TO THE END .    Either we follow him to the end

or we simply don't make it .   Its not us earning salvation ,  its simply obeying the grace which did save and saves TO THE END . 

Works do not earn salvation. If you have no good works your not in christ. That is why james called it a dead faith. If you believe from the heart you will have good work trust me. Add to your faith good works. If yout faith is alive you will want to add to faith. But we stand before God justified by the blood. I am not guilty because Jesus shed his blood and life on the cross.

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Those who do such things are not saved. But by not doing such things does not save you. Only the blood of Jesus saves us from wrath. Once saved those who did such things have already turn from those things. 1 john 3 days those born again does not practice unrighyeousness

Exactly.

I Cor. 6: 9-11 and Gal. 5: 19-21 do not  occur in a context about Paul warning believers that they will lose their salvation if they live those lives.  Usually when those verses are quoted as a proof text the immediate context is ignored. 

I Cor. 6:9-11 is referring to the magistrates of Corinth to whom the congregation of Corinth were taking their disputes.  Paul was telling them not to take disputes between church members to the secular authorities to have them settled.  The reason is because those magistrates of Corinth would not inherit the Kingdom of God.  The list Paul gave, "fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners," describe immorality of Corinth that had permeated even those who governed the city, as Corinth was the most immoral city in the ancient world at that time.    It is not a warning about losing salvation, but a warning against taking church matters to secular authorities.  Paul said that they should handle their matters in house, and not air the dirty laundry in front of the world. 

Gal. 5:19-21 is part of a discussion Paul was having about walking in the Spirit and he was comparing the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit.  Paul's point is that those who walk in the Spirit (who are developing the character of God through the fruit of the Spirit) will not fulfill the works of the flesh.  It isn't about losing salvation, but about the life of the Christian under the control of the Holy Spirit.   He will walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit. In other words, it is about growing in holiness as we put off the flesh and put on the things of the Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit. 

Context is really everything in understanding a text.  I wish more people would pay attention to context...

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Exactly.

I Cor. 6: 9-11 and Gal. 5: 19-21 do not  occur in a context about Paul warning believers that they will lose their salvation if they live those lives.  Usually when those verses are quoted as a proof text the immediate context is ignored. 

I Cor. 6:9-11 is referring to the magistrates of Corinth to whom the congregation of Corinth were taking their disputes.  Paul was telling them not to take disputes between church members to the secular authorities to have them settled.  The reason is because those magistrates of Corinth would not inherit the Kingdom of God.  The list Paul gave, "fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners," describe immorality of Corinth that had permeated even those who governed the city, as Corinth was the most immoral city in the ancient world at that time.    It is not a warning about losing salvation, but a warning against taking church matters to secular authorities.  Paul said that they should handle their matters in house, and not air the dirty laundry in front of the world. 

Gal. 5:19-21 is part of a discussion Paul was having about walking in the Spirit and he was comparing the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit.  Paul's point is that those who walk in the Spirit (who are developing the character of God through the fruit of the Spirit) will not fulfill the works of the flesh.  It isn't about losing salvation, but about the life of the Christian under the control of the Holy Spirit.   He will walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit. In other words, it is about growing in holiness as we put off the flesh and put on the things of the Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit. 

Context is really everything in understanding a text.  I wish more people would pay attention to context...

Very good ! I agree with you. Like people on this board think i and others are against there teaching others to walk holy and to put on righteousness. But its not that,  its the context they take from the bible. They are misusing the word. By applying it in such a way it turns holiness into something we perform to be saved. And if thats the case we dont need christ. We cannot ever be more saved then when we first believe in christ. Then of course we follow him and put on righteousness and be holy.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Wayne222 said:

Very good ! I agree with you. Like people on this board think i and others are against there teaching others to walk holy and to put on righteousness. But its not that,  its the context they take from the bible. They are misusing the word. By applying it in such a way it turns holiness into something we perform to be saved. And if thats the case we dont need christ. We cannot ever be more saved then when we first believe in christ. Then of course we follow him and put on righteousness and be holy.

Exactly right.

Human pride wants to earn or deserve salvation.  The message of cross and exclusivity of Christ is an offense to human pride that always wants to add something of its own in an attempt to "perfect" the work of salvation.   Pride is offended at the eternal truth that salvation is a free gift. 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Works do not earn salvation. If you have no good works your not in christ. That is why james called it a dead faith. If you believe from the heart you will have good work trust me. Add to your faith good works. If yout faith is alive you will want to add to faith. But we stand before God justified by the blood. I am not guilty because Jesus shed his blood and life on the cross.

Your message is confusing, I don't say this to judge you, but this is what it come across. 

JESUS CHRIST is not judging the way people judge. 

He knows whether someone has believe. 

Faith is always in the heart and it is incorrect to suggest anything contary. 

Jesus has assured us that no matter how small is the faith in anyone, he cannot be decieve, he can see it, and he does not need the witness or the confession of anyone. 

Jesus hates good works from thoses who say , look at my good works , I must be saved. 

Thats why there many unbelievers among us who use good works as a means to decieved the brethren that they believe when they our not and they do that for their own proppose. 

So to tell someone show me your good works to convinced me or others that you have believed it is not from the Spirit of Truth. 

To tell someone he does not believe when the person believes to scared him into good works and get his tithes is not right. 

Faith without works is eternal life. If you believe Jesus die on the Cross. 

But faith that your incometax refund is in the mail, when you are not eligible for a refund , then fast and pray but you will .never see the fruit of your prayer.