Born again, a “real” birth.

[Gideon]

5 hours ago, warrior12 said:

 

So how do you explain the Hebrews verse above in Hebrews 12:10.    Why would the Lord chasten a man who does not sin ??.

Look, the Bible does not condone sin, but admonishes us to pursue a life according to the scriptures.  If the Lord wanted us to be free of sin immediately, then when you accepted his free gift that would have been a supernatural power working within us that we would not touch sin at all, not even slip, as God there is no room for error as he alone is perfect.  With man, we still have this flesh with us, though in spirit it is dead, but physically it is still here.   Until we are gone home, there will be testings and trials and since we are not yet perfected, who knows when a believer can stumble.  A believer who reads and listens to the word, would grow and mature in the things of God.  

More to add to this, but have to run now  

Here is where much confusion lies. When a man or woman chooses to put off their old nature by faith and to reckon it dead and then puts on their new nature by faith as well, as I have said before, their core, who they are inside is totally different. They are pure, holy in their core. 

But here is the deal. He dwells in our hearts by faith. And when we first are found walking in our new nature, agreeing with God,  our faith is often.... most times in fact....small and weak. Can a man sin as he walks in this new nature? Yes, indeed. In my particular case, my visitation was so powerful, that for two full years I was not aware of any single time I went against the leading of the Spirit. It was simply “Yes, Lord!” no matter what God asked of me.  And after two years of blissful joy, with love seemingly oozing from me for everyone around me, I started rocking believe that once awakened, a man simply cannot sin anymore. 

You must remember, I had no one to talk to on this subject, no one would have understood where I was coming from . Heck, eleven years in, people still doubt my sanity, lol. Well, God needed me to understand what this walk was, and what it wasn’t. One day my eyes got off the Lord, my confidence in myself that I could not sin any longer grew, and boom. I sinned, and I knew it. It would be two months before I got my bearings straight again. The darkness was terrible. Had God left me? Nope. Was I no longer a new natured person? Nope. But my shield of faith that was my protection from Satan was lowered. And I was chastened... big time. 

Over these last eleven years, there indeed have been a few times I have slipped back into self and sin. It changes nothing as to rhe truth. As John wrote “If we sin....” we need to note he did not say “When you sin.....”. It is always possible and the possibilities decrease as our faith increases. What is happening here? We are fighting our good fight of faith. Our battle is not with our fleshly nature. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood. Our battle is with Satan and the unbelief he tries to get back into our hearts. 

Ome of the biggest lessons I have learned has been what to do IF we slip. Do we throw up our hands and say “Well, I guess I was wrong. God evidently can’t keep me from falling. “ No! Just the opposite. After we call sin a sin, repent of it and turn our backs on it, we need to immediately hoist back up our shield of faith that declares that sin has no hold on us, for it does not. Why did we sin? Our weakness? Our old nature? Nope. Unbelief. Even when we sin, it changes nothing as to our being new creatures. We have been new creatures since the day we were born again. 

I hope you see that this is not a place we achieve where sin is impossible. But as we fight our good fight of faith, declaring our God cannot lie, and we yield ourselves to Him as the word instructs us to do, as those who are alive from the dead, we discover that even when we fall, instead of it decimating our faith, our faith in Him as our life GROWS! What happens eventually? We become established in the faith, where slipping is just a distant memory. Can we sin here? Technically, yes. DO we sin here. Not a chance. 

So where am l? With a lot of battle scars and a shield of faith that is huge in comparison to what it once was, am I ‘established’? I would love to say yes, but I am not. But this much I know. I was a sinner of a professional grade before my awakening. Now, I count my slips on one hand perhaps in a year. Do I still get chastened. Yes, but it is not spankings as when I was younger. All it takes is a look of disappointment from my Lord, and that is far better chastisement than any rod could acccomplish. 

I pray this helps with your understanding. 

Blessings,

Gideon

[Gideon]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

True.

True

 

Sin does not depend on the heart motive when there is an express Command concerning it. We have the liberty to eat meat, but to eat it against conscience is sin even though there is no express command against it as you pointed out. But is there is a command such as 'Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain', you sin if you do it regardless of your heart motive. That is the point.

Sure it may be debated the meaning of 'gosh' and your motive for using it, my point is to clarify the above when using the word 'God'.

I agree. No amount of heart motive can override an express command of the Lord. 

Gideon

[angels4u]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

True.

True

 

Sin does not depend on the heart motive when there is an express Command concerning it. We have the liberty to eat meat, but to eat it against conscience is sin even though there is no express command against it as you pointed out. But if there is a command such as 'Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain', you sin if you do it regardless of your heart motive. That is the point.

Sure it may be debated the meaning of 'gosh' and your motive for using it, my point is to clarify the above when using the word 'God'.

This is what I told Gideon too, our conscience and not obeying God are 2 different things, it is called using Gods name in vain..

 

 

[angels4u]

9 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Here is where much confusion lies. When a man or woman chooses to put off their old nature by faith and to reckon it dead and then puts on their new nature by faith as well, as I have said before, their core, who they are inside is totally different. They are pure, holy in their core. 

But here is the deal. He dwells in our hearts by faith. And when we first are found walking in our new nature, agreeing with God,  our faith is often.... most times in fact....small and weak. Can a man sin as he walks in this new nature? Yes, indeed. In my particular case, my visitation was so powerful, that for two full years I was not aware of any single time I went against the leading of the Spirit. It was simply “Yes, Lord!” no matter what God asked of me.  And after two years of blissful joy, with love seemingly oozing from me for everyone around me, I started rocking believe that once awakened, a man simply cannot sin anymore. 

You must remember, I had no one to talk to on this subject, no one would have understood where I was coming from . Heck, eleven years in, people still doubt my sanity, lol. Well, God needed me to understand what this walk was, and what it wasn’t. One day my eyes got off the Lord, my confidence in myself that I could not sin any longer grew, and boom. I sinned, and I knew it. It would be two months before I got my bearings straight again. The darkness was terrible. Had God left me? Nope. Was I no longer a new natured person? Nope. But my shield of faith that was my protection from Satan was lowered. And I was chastened... big time. 

Over these last eleven years, there indeed have been a few times I have slipped back into self and sin. It changes nothing as to rhe truth. As John wrote “If we sin....” we need to note he did not say “When you sin.....”. It is always possible and the possibilities decrease as our faith increases. What is happening here? We are fighting our good fight of faith. Our battle is not with our fleshly nature. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood. Our battle is with Satan and the unbelief he tries to get back into our hearts. 

Ome of the biggest lessons I have learned has been what to do IF we slip. Do we throw up our hands and say “Well, I guess I was wrong. God evidently can’t keep me from falling. “ No! Just the opposite. After we call sin a sin, repent of it and turn our backs on it, we need to immediately hoist back up our shield of faith that declares that sin has no hold on us, for it does not. Why did we sin? Our weakness? Our old nature? Nope. Unbelief. Even when we sin, it changes nothing as to our being new creatures. We have been new creatures since the day we were born again. 

I hope you see that this is not a place we achieve where sin is impossible. But as we fight our good fight of faith, declaring our God cannot lie, and we yield ourselves to Him as the word instructs us to do, as those who are alive from the dead, we discover that even when we fall, instead of it decimating our faith, our faith in Him as our life GROWS! What happens eventually? We become established in the faith, where slipping is just a distant memory. Can we sin here? Technically, yes. DO we sin here. Not a chance. 

So where am l? With a lot of battle scars and a shield of faith that is huge in comparison to what it once was, am I ‘established’? I would love to say yes, but I am not. But this much I know. I was a sinner of a professional grade before my awakening. Now, I count my slips on one hand perhaps in a year. Do I still get chastened. Yes, but it is not spankings as when I was younger. All it takes is a look of disappointment from my Lord, and that is far better chastisement than any rod could acccomplish. 

I pray this helps with your understanding. 

Blessings,

Gideon

Quote

 

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Quote

Now, I count my slips on one hand perhaps in a year.

I know you're married? I would love to chat with your wife LOL

[warrior12]

27 minutes ago, Gideon said:

hope you see that this is not a place we achieve where sin is impossible. But as we fight our good fight of faith, declaring our God cannot lie, and we yield ourselves to Him as the word instructs us to do, as those who are alive from the dead, we discover that even when we fall, instead of it decimating our faith, our faith in Him as our life GROWS! What happens eventually? We become established in the faith, where slipping is just a distant memory. Can we sin here? Technically, yes. DO we sin here. Not a chance. 

So where am l? With a lot of battle scars and a shield of faith that is huge in comparison to what it once was, am I ‘established’? I would love to say yes, but I am not. But this much I know. I was a sinner of a professional grade before my awakening. Now, I count my slips on one hand perhaps in a year. Do I still get chastened. Yes, but it is not spankings as when I was younger. All it takes is a look of disappointment from my Lord, and that is far better chastisement than any rod could acccomplish. 

Acknowledge this.  It is at the cross where our burdens are laid and the believer are to leave them there.   Scripture says if one looks at a woman lustfully, then he has committed adultery.  This act don't have to be premeditated, but it can be a sin of the moment and by reason of guilt a believer must repent of it.   This sin can take seconds, and while believer does not want to do such, it is the nature of men.  Adultery is a serious sin and could be committed not by the act itself but by the lust of the eyes.  Hence the reason, the lust of the eyes, the lust of  the flesh and the pride of life are sins the is being presented to all men, even believers.  

This is why offer up our prayers, not only to pray for others but ourselves as we do fall short.  We say the Lord prayer too as we may have sinned and not taken stock of it as it may seem trivial at the time or we were not sure if our conscience bothered us enough to say it was a sin. In reflection after the fact, you then come to the conclusion that you have sinned.  So you see, sin and it's definition and characteristics can be in limbo as to our daily lives.  Sin written into law as in the word is established, but what about our daily lives.  Is unconscious sin not a sin.  To you it may be, but your guilt comes back to get and haunt you.   What do you do then, not repent and seek forgiveness. I think this is what believers do .   We can count the number of sins that we commit in a year, but at the end of the day, it shows that our heart is still vulnerable to the system that we are around.  

Yes, we are to strive for holiness, without which no man would see God.  We also have to know still that we still have these bodies, which we strive to mortify the deeds of the flesh, and the word "strive" is  active and a work in progress.  All the teachings in the bible is to encourage and build up the saints to stay in the straight and narrow pathways, but we also have to acknowledge we have a persistent  foes that sets his traps in a sinful world.  

We have to promises of total perfection and to be one with Christ in that perfection.  Also has to remember heaven is not on earth and is of a future event in a saint's life.   

Brother, if you have found that bliss that angels are privileged too, then may the Lord continue to bless you, only be totally truthful to yourself and don't let pride get in the way as it leads to a steep fall. 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] those born of God, born of the Spirit are they that do no longer put their trust into the hands and power of sin, but in God; whereas those not born of God do still put their trust into the hands and power of sin: in this the children of god are manifest, and the children of the devil.

(1 John 3:8-10)

[Gideon]

9 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Acknowledge this.  It is at the cross where our burdens are laid and the believer are to leave them there.   Scripture says if one looks at a woman lustfully, then he has committed adultery.  This act don't have to be premeditated, but it can be a sin of the moment and by reason of guilt a believer must repent of it.   This sin can take seconds, and while believer does not want to do such, it is the nature of men.  Adultery is a serious sin and could be committed not by the act itself but by the lust of the eyes.  Hence the reason, the lust of the eyes, the lust of  the flesh and the pride of life are sins the is being presented to all men, even believers.  

This is why offer up our prayers, not only to pray for others but ourselves as we do fall short.  We say the Lord prayer too as we may have sinned and not taken stock of it as it may seem trivial at the time or we were not sure if our conscience bothered us enough to say it was a sin. In reflection after the fact, you then come to the conclusion that you have sinned.  So you see, sin and it's definition and characteristics can be in limbo as to our daily lives.  Sin written into law as in the word is established, but what about our daily lives.  Is unconscious sin not a sin.  To you it may be, but your guilt comes back to get and haunt you.   What do you do then, not repent and seek forgiveness. I think this is what believers do .   We can count the number of sins that we commit in a year, but at the end of the day, it shows that our heart is still vulnerable to the system that we are around.  

Yes, we are to strive for holiness, without which no man would see God.  We also have to know still that we still have these bodies, which we strive to mortify the deeds of the flesh, and the word "strive" is  active and a work in progress.  All the teachings in the bible is to encourage and build up the saints to stay in the straight and narrow pathways, but we also have to acknowledge we have a persistent  foes that sets his traps in a sinful world.  

We have to promises of total perfection and to be one with Christ in that perfection.  Also has to remember heaven is not on earth and is of a future event in a saint's life.   

Brother, if you have found that bliss that angels are privileged too, then may the Lord continue to bless you, only be totally truthful to yourself and don't let pride get in the way as it leads to a steep fall. 

Brother, thank you for an excellent question. Considering that sexual lust was my personal “Achilles heel” sin for the first 38 years as a follower of Christ, it is a most appropriate qiestion. 

First, let us clear up a major point. Let’s re-read the verse you quoted.

”But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
                                                                 Matthew 5:28 

Do you see what I see? What was the purpose of that man’s hearts he looked on a woman? To lust. That is why he looked. Right? If I am surfing the internet and decide to look at porn, I am not doing so to for any other reason than to lust. Correct? So I have already sinned. However if I am surfing the internet and a photo of an attractive woman comes across my screen, and the temptation all of a sudden hits me like a ton of bricks, have I sinned? Nope. Not yet.

Now, the temptation is real, no doubt.  But is temptation sin? Of course not.  Yielding to it is.  Previously in my life, before my visitation, when I was walking as an old natured but born again believer, I would still fall, every time. It was a moot point as to whether or not I purposed to lust or accidentally fell into it and gave myself to it. Either way it resulted in sin.

Why? Simply because I had not shield of faith up, and so when Satan shot his arrows at me, they always found their mark. ALWAYS. I had no protection. So I lived with constant fear, constant guilt. Someone could tell me that there was no condemnation to them that know the Lord, and my only conclusions were:

a) What had they been drinking? 

b) God was a liar

c) I was fooling myself and was not saved at all

At the time, I did not see option “d”, which was I was saved, but I was not safe. So how does one get “safe”? It is what I have been asked to share by the Lord. It is realizing that no matter how I try, I simply will never grow strong enough to give me adequate protection from the devil, no matter what my particular sin of choice is. It is then believing that there has to be a place in the Lord where one can truly be free of the claw that has a stronghold in our brain, or Jesus was a liar telling us we could be FREE INDEED. 

Once we are desperate enough, and yet refuse to lower the standard of God that heart holiness is important, and also refuse to believe that God somehow, some way, cannot free us to the point of being “free indeed”, we are ready.

Ready for what? To cast any remaining hope that we can overcome lust by our efforts.... Bible memorization, prayer, fasting, accountability partners, smashing our computers, letting go and letting God, tearing out the bra and panty sections of our old Sears catalogues, or public confession. I listed these because I had tried all of them. Thank God I did not take it literally when the Word tells us to pluck our our eyes or cut off our hands if they offend us, lol.

So that brings us to the point that we are left absolutely hopeless in victory unless Christ gives us a miracle. So when the Lord asks us in Romans 6 to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God, even though it sounds radical, we are so desperate (and it sounds a lot better to us than being a blind, one handed believer), that we cry out to God to “do it for us”.

This reckoning is exactly the verse God asked me if I had ever done in all my trying to walk obediently to Him. I had memorized the entire 6th, 7th and 8th chapters of Romans, but in all that time, I had never seen that there was something we were asked to DO. Knowing the truth that we died when Christ died and we rose to newness of life when Christ was resurrected is wonderful, but  I had never seen that I needed to do something. And what was that? 

I was asked to exercise my minuscule, mustard seed sized faith and believe that those truths were MY truths. I was asked to, by faith, appropriate them as MY truths. And I was asked to believe, not that some day in the future I would be free, but that I was free NOW. Why? Because hope is for a future event. Faith is alwaysxNOW faith. 

So I spoke, out loud, so my ears could hear the truth coming out of my mouth. And when I did, everything changed. I had obeyed the Lord and put off the ‘old me’ and put on the new nature Jesus died to give us. And when I did, scales fell from my eyes. I finally understood the mystery that had been hidden from my eyes for 38 years. Christ had been with me the whole time. But I needed Christ IN ME to be my life.

Ok, back to the issue of our thoughts. Currently, you say that sin can happen in a second, tripping us up. Here is what I have found. Yes, temptation can happen that fast, seemingly coming out of nowhere. But as we have discussed, temptation is not sin, right?

Ok, this part is critical. If it is now no longer you that lives (the old you) but Christ who now lives in you (as the new man), then when the temptation comes to you as a thought, a flaming arrow, is it YOUR thought any longer? It seemed like your thought previously because you did not have your shield of faith raised high, but it is not your thought. It is satan’s arrow with a hook in it, and it’s purpose is far more than to get you to sin. He is after your faith that it is not you that live any longer, but Christ who now lives in you.

Glory to God, do you see? If that thought is not yours, and you immediately reject it as simply a temptation cast at you from the enemy, how wonderful it is to smile and say “Not this time, Satan” and watch him retreat in defeat. This is how we bring every thought unto the obedience of Christ. Now.... does it work? How can it not? It is truth, and truth sets free! 

I would be remiss to not mention that slipping IS possible, especially when one first steps out in faith. If we slip....not when.... it is critical we understand why. We stand by faith, we abide by faith, we overcome the world, the flesh and the devil by faith. But when we first step out to believe our God, our faith is small and can waver. That is the ONLY reason we fall. Why? How do we know this? Because we are dead! So, IF we sin, we certainly confess it, we repent and turn from it. But there is one more critical step. We immediately raise up our shields of faith again as to who we are in Christ and that we are kept by the power of God in us through faith!

We may have just blown it big time, and Satan comes in accusing, calling us hypocrites, telling us we are the same old failure we always have been. And we may feel like hypocrites as we confess that we are dead to sin abut alive unto God. But we are not. We are holding fast to the truth. And.... our faith grows. Glory to God. 

Blessings to you, brother, and if you have any other questions, you have but to ask. I will do the best I can to answer them. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

[Mike Mclees]

12 hours ago, Gideon said:

I agree. No amount of heart motive can override an express command of the Lord. 

Gideon

Let me see if I'm understanding this. If one says he does not want to take the Lords name in vain being sin, he replaces it by saying gosh darn it or dad burnit is no then actually saying God name in vain. Just asking

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, Gideon said:

Why? Simply because I had not shield of faith up, and so when Satan shot his arrows at me, they always found their mark. ALWAYS. I had no protection. So I lived with constant fear, constant guilt. Someone could tell me that there was no condemnation to them that know the Lord, and my only conclusions were:

You see, you were missing pieces of the armor.  Faith is one of the pieces, but one must put on the  FULL armor, or left vulnerable. 

 

 Ephesians 6 King James Version (KJV)

¹¹ Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

¹² For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

¹³ Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

¹⁴ Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

¹⁵ And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

¹⁶ Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

¹⁷ And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

¹⁸ Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Edited May 6, 2018 by warrior12

[Gideon]

37 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

You see, you were missing pieces of the armor.  Faith is one of the pieces, but one must put on the  FULL armor, or left vulnerable. 

 

 Ephesians 6 King James Version (KJV)

¹¹ Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

¹² For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

¹³ Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

¹⁴ Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

¹⁵ And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

¹⁶ Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

¹⁷ And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

¹⁸ Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Brother, if you were not serious about asking if it is possible, you simply had to tell me. Do you not see our entire armor is Jesus Himself? That is why we are told to put on the whole armor of God AND we are told to put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The shield of faith is a defensive piece of armor that holds Satan at bay  and protects us from his arrows fo temptation and his accusations as to our impending failure. 

Blessings, 

Gideon