Last Daze Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Diaste is a false prophet It's not that you don't want to, its just that you simply can't. So, its' best to keep your judgments to yourself. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Nothing I said was provocative. I addressed the issue you raised head-on. How did not address the issue? I am not avoiding anything. I quoted and directly addressed your remarks! No one said that anyone is destined to wrath. They become Christians during the Tribulation. They are not Christians destined to wrath. They become Christians in the midst of the wrath of God. There is nothing to reconcile as no one said that any believer is "destined" to wrath. It is not special privilege or segregation. It is simply that we believe that after the Tribulation begins, after the Church is taken out of the earth that everyone else will be the unsaved that rejected the Gospel. Some of them, actually a great number of them will get saved during that time period. They are not "destined" for that, it's just that this is when they got saved. God has not destined ANY believers for wrath. Just like God has not destined any of us for persecution. But those who rejected the Gospel and are alive when Tribulation starts will go through the Tribulation. It is a natural consequence of their decision, but they will be able to be saved during that time period, nonetheless. The doors of grace are not closed on them and they will be saved. Unfortunately, it will be an awful time to be a Christian, but they have the same eternity in Heaven and the Lord will be with them in that awful time period, the same as us. My last word for all the acolytes of the pretrib doctrine in this thread. 1 Peter 4:17 King James Version (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? You'll soon see how right Peter is about the end of the age. Throw off the yoke, renew your mind, get ready, cause the church isn't going anywhere. Hope to see you in the throne room! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Diaste is a false prophet False prophets don't look for answers, students do....Diaste is a student looking for answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Diaste said: My last word for all the acolytes of the pretrib doctrine in this thread. 1 Peter 4:17 King James Version (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? You'll soon see how right Peter is about the end of the age. Throw off the yoke, renew your mind, get ready, cause the church isn't going anywhere. Hope to see you in the throne room! Which is not refutation of what I said. You can't actually mount a substantive response so you deflect. Thanks for bolstering my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: Can a person be a part of the body of Christ and not be a part of the church? Nope. OT saints are not part of the body of Christ, neither are Tribulation saints. They are not second class believers, but they are not part of the Church. "Body of Christ" is a metaphor for the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Tell me that, 'not a part of the church' is equitable and nonsegregationist. If they are full believers why must they endure wrath and the church does not? Oh, your a dispensationalist. Never mind. It's not segregationist. Segregationism would be separating out certain Christians today, as being not part of the Church. 1 hour ago, Diaste said: But they endure God's all the same. Semantics doesn't change the fact that the church escapes wrath based on Paul's statement, yet pretrib doctrine has 'full believers' enduring the wrath from which the pretrib believers do not suffer. It's wrong as we, believers are not appointed wrath, all of them. Something is drastically askew with the doctrine. They are full believers, but they were NOT believers during the Church age. They missed out on that. Choices have consequences. They were not believers who were left behind to suffer. They rejected the Gospel initially, but found Christ in the midst of the Tribulation. They are not "appointed" to wrath. That is not why they are going through it. Just because someone is going through the wrath doesn't mean they are "appointed" to it. It is just how the circumstances occurred. They are actually martyred for their faith by the AC. But they are not at all diminished as believers (Rev. 7:9-17). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: They become believers the same way we do. They put their faith in Jesus Christ and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, same as us. There's nothing "irreconcilable" about that. 12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Nope. OT saints are not part of the body of Christ, neither are Tribulation saints. They are not second class believers, but they are not part of the Church. "Body of Christ" is a metaphor for the Church. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Ephesians 4:4 Why do you try to divide something that God has declared to be one? You have stated that after the pretrib rapture that the new covenant is still in effect, and that tribulation saints are saved as we are and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, yet they are not a part of the body of Christ. How do you reconcile that view with the the two verses above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Last Daze said: For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Ephesians 4:4 Why do you try to divide something that God has declared to be one? That is talking about the Church. It is not including either Old Testament saints or the Tribulation saints. I am not dividing anything. Quote You have stated that after the pretrib rapture that the new covenant is still in effect, and that tribulation saints are saved as we are and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, yet they are not a part of the body of Christ. How do you reconcile that view with the the two verses above? Being saved and being part of the Church are not the same thing. Old Testament saints who were saved are not part of the Church or the body of Christ. The Church was not on the earth when they were alive. Teh Church did not start until Acts 2. So it follows that since the church will not be the earth during the Tribulation, those who are saved during that time will not part of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: That is talking about the Church. It is not including either Old Testament saints or the Tribulation saints. I am not dividing anything. Being saved and being part of the Church are not the same thing. Old Testament saints who were saved are not part of the Church or the body of Christ. The Church was not on the earth when they were alive. Teh Church did not start until Acts 2. So it follows that since the church will not be the earth during the Tribulation, those who are saved during that time will not part of the Church. No one but you is talking about Old Testament saints. They don't even factor into this discussion. Please stick to the topic at hand. We are talking about new covenant believers and the indwelling Holy Spirit, the body of Christ. That's the scope. Let me post the scriptures again. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Ephesians 4:4 If the "tribulation saints" have the Holy Spirit indwelling, they are part of the one body, the body of Christ. There's no other way to read that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, Davida said: The old testament saints was given as an example of those that were saved but were not a part of "the church" because it didn't exist yet. Were they under the new covenant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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