frienduff thaylorde Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Butero said: Just because you make a claim about what James is meaning doesn't make it so. He is making it clear that faith that doesn't produce works is dead faith. It is worthless. Ye see then, how that by works, A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and not by faith only. James 2:24 That is faith plus works, not faith plus nothing. And besides this, giving all diligence, add to your faith, virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; And to knowledge, temperance; and to temperance, patience; and to patience, godliness; And to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren, nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things,, is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore, the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly, into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-11 Conditional. If you do these things, you shall never fall. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 There are no exceptions given for those gloriously saved at an old fashioned alter. Those who behave this way, SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. No ifs, ands or buts. What some folks clearly do not see is this . THE DOING is simply OBEYING the SPIRIT . They claim to say, to say such things is JESUS PLUS. WHEN in fact, IT IS SIMPLY PREACHING JESUS . OBEY HIM , OBEY THE SPIRIT . FOR IT is HE IN US working that which is well pleasing IN HIS SIGHT . And folks act like the ones who stir up BY that same SPIRIT , are preaching either JESUS plus, or works earned . WHEN IN TRUTH , ITS SIMPLY we preaching OBEY JESUS or you will FALL AWAY . YEAH now how simple is that . 8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: James 2 is not about how a person is saved. Nor, is he talking about justification before God. The context is about our works justifying us in terms of our profession of faith. What you do reveals if what you claim is really true. If a person is saved, it will borne out in their character. Their works will "justify" in the sense of "affirm" what the say. Faith and works do go together in terms of how a Christian lives out their sanctification. But faith alone is what makes us right before God. James 2 is not about how a person is saved THANK you for making clear what we already know . I am happy to see you say that . JAMES TWO is however , showing us the faith without works , IS NOT REALLY FAITH at all. REPENTANCE is KEY . IT SHOWS who is in our heart . James was simply preaching truth . as was JOHN . IF one says HE loves GOD , but walks in that sinny sin sin HE IS A LIAR . THIER is no truth in HIM . HIS faith is false and fake and he does NOT KNOW JESUS . Now james BY THE SPIRIT was reminding the church to be DOERS of the word , not hearers ONLY , DECIEVING your selves . And that points right back to WHAT JESUS had said , A MAN who hears and DOES my sayings , WHO HEARS and DOES . And we cant HEAR unless the SPIRIT is in us . But if we do not obey THAT SPIRIT , we fall. PEROID . PEROID . this is why that early church was ever so dire to warn and correct . FOR if one who does err, REPENTS ..............all is well. but if they reject that SPIRIT who corrects and uses men to correct , And they remain in that state , DEATH is their end . NOW lets get busying being grave , compassionate , Serious and doing all to both exhort remind , stir up one another . Edited June 9, 2018 by frienduff thaylorde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: It doesn't say that God created and planned out the life of Judas so that he would betray Jesus. SHILOH , oh dear lets not drag the soap box debate back in again . Lets just focus on what james said . For the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Butero said: Let me see if I get this straight. "Faith alone is what makes us right before God." So are you telling all of us that if we got saved, we remain right before God if we commit adultery? Yes, professing Christians have been known to do that. Are you saying we remain right before God if we shoplift? Yes, professing Christians have been known to do that. Are you saying we remain right before God if we kill our spouse? I know a professing Christian that tried to do that. I was shocked when I heard about it. Is your position that no matter what a professing Christian does, even if they do all the things the Bible says will keep them from inheriting the Kingdom of God, they will still remain right before God? It sure didn't look like Ananias and Sapphira were in right standing with God at the end! Professing Christians do those things. Disciples of Jesus do not. Lot's people profess to be Christians simply because they got baptized as an infant or confirmed at age 6 or because they were raised in church and have been a member in good standing in their local church for 40 years. Professing Christians are not right with God. They have religion, but they don't have Jesus. We, over here in western Christianity, lowered the bar for who we accept as a genuine Christian. If you read the historical writings of the early church going back to the 2nd the 3rd century and even in the New Testament, the standard that was used for measuring who is or is not saved was far more stringent. Your life and character had to be examined for 2 years before you could even be candidate for baptism. We just accept that if someone says they are a Christian that they are, without even asking them why they think they are saved. We are probably letting a lot of people slip into Hell because we don't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 167 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,160 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 644 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 56 minutes ago, Butero said: I was thinking more about Hebrews chapter 10. Okay, thanks for letting me know. If you're referring to Heb 10:26, my understanding is that it describes those continuing on in their present state after becoming aware of the Truth. Instead of receiving the truth they receive (obtain) only the knowledge of the truth., and thus no change of soul. Blessings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 513 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,192 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,355 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, WordSword said: Hi Butero, and thanks for your reply! There is an interesting commentator (Albert Barnes) that points out that Heb 6:4-6 is referring those born again, but verse 6 is just a supposition--"If they fall away," e.g. if they could fall away--they could not be "renewed." To me it's an insinuation of something impossible, i.e. if the sun cease to exist all would be destroyed. The other supposition relates to the supposition that the Son of God could be re-crucified, which is an impossibility. Blessings! Very interesting thought WordSword! This is definitely something I’m going to kick around before the Lord. Thanks for the post, a great one. much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: Professing Christians do those things. Disciples of Jesus do not. Lot's people profess to be Christians simply because they got baptized as an infant or confirmed at age 6 or because they were raised in church and have been a member in good standing in their local church for 40 years. Professing Christians are not right with God. They have religion, but they don't have Jesus. We, over here in western Christianity, lowered the bar for who we accept as a genuine Christian. If you read the historical writings of the early church going back to the 2nd the 3rd century and even in the New Testament, the standard that was used for measuring who is or is not saved was far more stringent. Your life and character had to be examined for 2 years before you could even be candidate for baptism. We just accept that if someone says they are a Christian that they are, without even asking them why they think they are saved. We are probably letting a lot of people slip into Hell because we don't ask. Yet when we make mention of that fact , we get banned . I at first will accept one if they say they are christain , BUT I watch and examine THE WALK . When error is produced it gets corrected asap . I can say for example EVERY one of those power hungry prosperity gopsle kings and queens. DONT KNOW HIM and are in danger of HELLS FURY in a lake of fire . But when I do that , I get oh veyed. When I examine ones walk , I GET oh veyed. WE better return to the early church pattern. When I warn against that false sensual love , oh veys. WHEN I warn we must continue in CHRIST , oh veyed . SEE the problem yet . Let a poor puny thing exhort as HE is led of GOD to do so . Just let a wee thing warn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Butero said: Just because you make a claim about what James is meaning doesn't make it so. He is making it clear that faith that doesn't produce works is dead faith. It is worthless. Ye see then, how that by works, A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and not by faith only. James 2:24 That is faith plus works, not faith plus nothing. The church fathers struggled with canonizing James there was quite a debate till they realized all James was saying is proof is in the pudding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Yowm said: Apparently, obeying the Spirit is believing... Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (Joh 6:28-29) Faith + 0 Otherwise, how MUCH must you do in order to be saved?? After six months or more , HOW often I HAVE KNOWN its all about BELIEVING . to the queens and kings of ASSUMPTOIN who are not used to the warnings and exhortations . Let a puny thing warn . I KNOW THIS YWOM . The fact you cant SEE I know that , IS so messed up . Butero KNOWS IT too. Apparently peter did and paul did too, WHEN they warned about falling away . apparently for sure JESUS KNEW TOO when he warned and exhorted about continuing in HIM This has got to end . If some don't like the early church style exhortations , JUST SAY SO . I mean sure I aint going to stop . but at least we know where we stand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: After six months or more , HOW often I HAVE KNOWN its all about BELIEVING . to the queens and kings of ASSUMPTOIN who are not used to the warnings and exhortations . Let a puny thing warn . I KNOW THIS YWOM . The fact you cant SEE I know that , IS so messed up . Butero KNOWS IT too. Apparently peter did and paul did too, WHEN they warned about falling away . apparently for sure JESUS KNEW TOO when he warned and exhorted about continuing in HIM This has got to end . If some don't like the early church style exhortations , JUST SAY SO . I mean sure I aint going to stop . but at least we know where we stand . Quote The fact you cant SEE I know that , IS so messed up . Butero KNOWS IT too. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Butero said: Lets look at this the other way around for a moment, and forget about the bad people. Does anyone really think God didn't know who the twelve Apostles would be before the foundation of the earth? We know he had the plan in place to have his Son come and die on a cross before the fall of man. Does anyone think God didn't know Peter and James and John, and the rest of the faithful Apostles, and even Matthias, and that he intended the lot to go in his favor to replace Judas Iscariot? I don't know what is so hard to get about such a simple concept. The only way I could see all of the strife over this is if you believe God doesn't know the future, but that would contradict the Bible that tells us the future. In a practical sense, there is no reason to worry about what God planned or knew would happen. What matters is having a basic understanding of the plan of salvation. We are saved through faith in Christ. If we continue to abide in him, we will never fall away. The only way we can fall away is to make a conscious decision to choose to walk away and return to a life of sin. If we do that, and we have opportunity, we can return, make confession, and like the prodigal Son, be made "alive again." Knowing the future and predetermining the future are not the same, even though you insist on treating the same. If we can fall away by making a conscious decision to choose to walk away, then choose to return, then free will is not an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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