The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Last Daze]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Yes. Scripture.

Care to expound?

[iamlamad]

47 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Care to expound?

If you insist: 

When he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

They are redeemed. Angels are never redeemed. They are people from the Old Covenant.

[Last Daze]

59 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

If you insist: 

When he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

They are redeemed. Angels are never redeemed. They are people from the Old Covenant.

Here's an article that tells why "us" is an inferior translation, if you're interested.  The translation "them" is preferred by the majority.

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

One could guess that saints would be dressed in white and have crowns - but this would also be true of Old Testament saints. Who would be "older" than Adam? He would be the oldest of any "elders!"  Perhaps Methuselah would be next. Perhaps Noah would be an elder, and Abraham.  My point is, the 24 elders is simply NO PROOF of the church. They are seen in heaven in a vision around 32 AD.  PERHAPS they were resurrected when Jesus rose from the dead. See Matthew 27:  "The earth did quake...and the graves were opened."

Since they were seen in heaven during the time of the early church, they simple cannot be related to the church. Therefore my guess is that they are Old Testament Elders. 

You have officially gone over the deep end. God bless ?

[Steve Conley]

12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Yes. I don't "think" where it is, I know where it is, for John TELLS us.  First, we know from Jesus that it must come after the abomination event that will divide the week, so it must come AFTER chapter 11.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Jesus doesn't say that it must come after the abomination of desolation, He says that "then" shall be great tribulation. The abomination of desolation, that Daniel says happens in the midst of the week, begins the unprecedented persecution. There is no time between the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation. Jesus says when you see it go hide in the mountains, don't even take time to pack. The abomination of desolation is not a precursor to great tribulation it is the initiating event of great tribulation.

You have things a little confused.

Hallelujah

Edited July 28, 2018 by Steve Conley

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Jesus doesn't say that it must come after the abomination of desolation, He says that "then" shall be great tribulation. The abomination of desolation that Daniel says happens in the midst of the week begins the unprecedented persecution. There is no time between the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation. Jesus says when you see it go hide in the mountains, don't even take time to pack. The abomination of desolation is not a precursor to great tribulation it is the initiating event of great tribulation.

You have things a little confused.

Hallelujah

Yes, and no. Rev. 12 shows us that the Dragon, or Satan will go after those that begin their fleeing at the abomination.  They have to RUN and run quickly the moment they see it.  But is that the worst of the days of Great Tribulation? No. However, dead is dead no matter how it comes.  After the dragon sees that God is protecting those that fled, he will then turn on all those that love Jesus. But is this the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of? Still  no! The man of sin is revealed as the Beast right at the midpoint, but the False prophet will show up later - we don't know how much later. It will be the False Prophet that will initiate the Image and Mark, and it will be the enforcing of worshiping the image and receiving the mark that will cause the WORST of the days of GT.  GREAT PRESSURE will be put on people to accept the mark - but all will know that will doom them to the lake of fire.

  Yet, as I said, dead is dead, whether it is 5 minutes after the midpoint or 2 years after the midpoint.  Look at it this way: it will surely be GT for those that flee at the moment of the abomination, but at that moment the Dragon is only going after those in Judea that fled.  But it will be much worse for those later in the last half when there is no water to drink, for all fresh water will have been turned to blood, and the only water to drink will be from pumps or from the store.  Die of thirst or take the mark?  No, the best option will be to turn yourself in and lose your head, and arrive in heaven that way.

Sorry to disappoint, but I am not confused. Why would you even think so? 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

You have officially gone over the deep end. God bless ?

It is not my fault you have not discovered the dating of the vision of the throne room!

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Here's an article that tells why "us" is an inferior translation, if you're interested.  The translation "them" is preferred by the majority.

It seems "them" is the majority text reading.  If "them" is correct, then whom is "them" pointed to? The infant church still on earth? The problem with "US" is that the 4 beasts are included!

[Last Daze]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It seems "them" is the majority text reading.  If "them" is correct, then whom is "them" pointed to? The infant church still on earth? The problem with "US" is that the 4 beasts are included!

Michael Heiser has written a book called The Unseen Realm which in my opinion is well worth reading.  It may shed some light on it.

[Steve Conley]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Yes, and no. Rev. 12 shows us that the Dragon, or Satan will go after those that begin their fleeing at the abomination.  They have to RUN and run quickly the moment they see it.  But is that the worst of the days of Great Tribulation? No. However, dead is dead no matter how it comes.  After the dragon sees that God is protecting those that fled, he will then turn on all those that love Jesus. But is this the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of? Still  no! The man of sin is revealed as the Beast right at the midpoint, but the False prophet will show up later - we don't know how much later. It will be the False Prophet that will initiate the Image and Mark, and it will be the enforcing of worshiping the image and receiving the mark that will cause the WORST of the days of GT.  GREAT PRESSURE will be put on people to accept the mark - but all will know that will doom them to the lake of fire.

  Yet, as I said, dead is dead, whether it is 5 minutes after the midpoint or 2 years after the midpoint.  Look at it this way: it will surely be GT for those that flee at the moment of the abomination, but at that moment the Dragon is only going after those in Judea that fled.  But it will be much worse for those later in the last half when there is no water to drink, for all fresh water will have been turned to blood, and the only water to drink will be from pumps or from the store.  Die of thirst or take the mark?  No, the best option will be to turn yourself in and lose your head, and arrive in heaven that way.

Sorry to disappoint, but I am not confused. Why would you even think so? 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

You are still confused. Read it all again.

Hallelujah