The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but that is not the intent of the Author in this passage.  The theme of the passage is the gathering. Therefore the understanding of the passage MUST include the gathering. 

And did you miss the part of my response that said,

 

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

The truth is it's the apostasy and the revealing of the beast that restrains the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

I clearly cite both the coming of the Lord and the gathering, as it is written, "....concerning the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to Him..."

Making the thesis about the coming of the Lord AND the gathering. Both.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

And did you miss the part of my response that said,

 

I clearly cite both the coming of the Lord and the gathering, as it is written, "....concerning the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to Him..."

Making the thesis about the coming of the Lord AND the gathering. Both.

Sorry, but the theme is the gathering.

They were greatly disturbed because someone prophesied to them or they read a letter supposedly from Paul that the DAY had started, and they were already in it.  The reason they were greatly upset is because in Paul's first letter, he explained that the rapture would trigger the Day of the Lord - that they would be called up and THEN the Day would begin. I think most people in a similar situation would be greatly disturbed! 

Paul's argument then, was to show anyone how they can know for SURE that the DAY has come and they are in it. 

FIRST - in agreement with His first letter - first there most come a departing or departure: the entity that is restraining the man of sin, keeping him from being revealed until the proper time - and then, after the departure  - after the one restraining has been "taken out of the way"  - then the man of sin can be revealed. 

Paul is very clear, before the man of sin can be revealed, the one restraining MUST be taken out of the way.  The THEME of this passage is the rapture of the church - where the church is taken out of the way. 

In verse 6 Paul wrote, "and now you know"(who this restrainer is).  HOW Paul? HOW can we know? The answer is very obvious: HE JUST TOLD US, but in a way easy to be missed: so Paul wrote this phrase do people would go back and dig in deeper. We know from verses 6-8 that the man of sin cannot be revealed until a very significant departing takes place, and this departing is the restrainer "taken out of the way" which hints strongly of an OUTSIDE FORCE involved in this significant departing. Again, this fits the gathering or rapture to a "T."  In the rapture event an outside force - the Holy Spirit - catches away the church, both living and those who have passed - so that they are effectively "taken out of the way." As per Paul's first letter, the moment the church has been taken out of the way, the DAY begins with His wrath beginning. 

When therefore the church has been taken out of the way, THEN the man of sin will be revealed, and Paul tells us, when that happens, when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is the God of the Jews, THEN all will know the DAY has come and they are now IN IT. See how simple this passage is? 

If we go back to verse 3, and look at the last half of the verse, we see that in Paul's argument, the man of sin has now been revealed, meaning, of course, that the one restraining has now been "taken out of the way." Therefore, in the first half of the verse, we MUST FIND the one restraining or holding back the revealing - being "taken out of the way." There is only one possibility: hidden in the word "apostasia" is the one doing the restraining being removed or taken out of the way.

When we study Strong's we find this apostasia is a compound Greek word, with APO and STASIA.  It is from the Greek word stasia that we get "stationary" or not moving. But under the Greek word APO Strong wrote this: that it is a part of a whole [group] removed and taken somewhere else while the rest of the group is left. Again this is a perfect description of the rapture: a part of the whole population of earth will be snatched away from the whole group. And it will happen SO FAST it will seem like the rest of the world did not even move: they were stationary.

If Paul had not written, "and now you know" perhaps most would miss his real meaning.  

Next, there is parallelism here: with several verses. In the first part of the verse or verses it is the restrainer being taken out of the way, and in the second part of the verse or verses, it is the man of sin being revealed.

Ultimately Paul point to them was, there is no need to be greatly disturbed: people can know for SURE that the DAY has come and they are in it, when they see the man of sin revealed - but not to worry, for the great departing [of the church] must come first.

 

One thing that is very certain: the gathering is NOT the DAY nor is the DAY the same as the gathering. The truth is, the gathering will be the trigger for the DAY. Paul shows us this is both letters. He certainly would not disagree with his first letter in his second letter.

Edited August 11, 2018 by iamlamad

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but the theme is the gathering.

All the wishful thinking in the world cannot remedy this, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our being gathered to him, " It's both, on the same day, nearly at the same moment as Matthew records, first the sign, then His appearance and then the angels gather the elect.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

They were greatly disturbed because someone prophesied to them or they read a letter supposedly from Paul that the DAY had started, and they were already in it.  The reason they were greatly upset is because in Paul's first letter, he explained that the rapture would trigger the Day of the Lord - that they would be called up and THEN the Day would begin. I think most people in a similar situation would be greatly disturbed! 

The rapture does not trigger the day of the Lord. The one and only gathering detailed in the Gospels comes after the signs and the appearance of Jesus. Paul explained no such thing in 1 Thess as the  nonexistent 'rapture'  'triggering' anything other than redemption, new bodies, new names, etc.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Paul's argument then, was to show anyone how they can know for SURE that the DAY has come and they are in it. 

FIRST - in agreement with His first letter - first there most come a departing or departure: the entity that is restraining the man of sin, keeping him from being revealed until the proper time - and then, after the departure  - after the one restraining has been "taken out of the way"  - then the man of sin can be revealed. 

The only departure in 2 Thess is a departure from the faith. The word is 'apotasia' which is rebellion. The word used in 2 Thess is NOT 'aphistemi', which is a defection in any case, a departure from an ideology, NOT a departure from one place to another.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Paul is very clear, before the man of sin can be revealed, the one restraining MUST be taken out of the way.  The THEME of this passage is the rapture of the church - where the church is taken out of the way. 

Paul is very clear that what withholds is the rebellion and the revealing of the man of sin, holding back the coming of the Lord and the one and only gathering of the saints of God. What you repeat is what you have heard. The wolves have taught you to believe the 'restrainer' is the church or the Holy Spirit or Micheal, none of which is true. Read it again, but before that let me cite the passage containing only the antecedents and the descendants:

 "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time." 

Quite obvious the Lord's coming is being held back by the two events that must occur first: the rebellion and the revealing of the beast. Paul says, "now you know WHAT is holding him back", not WHO. The direct antecedent of the WHAT is the rebellion and the revealing of the beast. No matter what you may have heard I guarantee you are just parroting and have not done the research. I used to do the same thing, until I read the passage. Which you should do as well.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In verse 6 Paul wrote, "and now you know"(who this restrainer is).  

Why not finish the quote? Cause it would disprove your beliefs? It's intellectually dishonest to use snips and sound bites to prove a point. Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". So, WHAT is holding back what or whom? Well, it's the events of rebellion and revealing holding back the appearance of Jesus and the gathering. You don't have to take my word for it, you should but it's not required, you'll when no 'rapture' occurs and the beast is revealed as sitting the Temple proclaiming himself to be god. Not a hard thing to discern, just read the scripture and take it at it's word. Simple.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

When therefore the church has been taken out of the way, THEN the man of sin will be revealed, and Paul tells us, when that happens, when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is the God of the Jews, THEN all will know the DAY has come and they are now IN IT. See how simple this passage is? 

Well, no. The church is not taken out of the way. The refutation of this falsehood follows below. Somewhere, I think. Wait, I think it was above.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If we go back to verse 3, and look at the last half of the verse, we see that in Paul's argument, the man of sin has now been revealed, meaning, of course, that the one restraining has now been "taken out of the way." Therefore, in the first half of the verse, we MUST FIND the one restraining or holding back the revealing - being "taken out of the way." There is only one possibility: hidden in the word "apostasia" is the one doing the restraining being removed or taken out of the way.

No. Because the beast has been revealed DOES NOT mean anything has been removed. I mean seriously, "the man of sin has been revealed is defined only through the restrainer being taken out of the way"?

 

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

When we study Strong's we find this apostasia is a compound Greek word, with APO and STASIA.  It is from the Greek word stasia that we get "stationary" or not moving. But under the Greek word APO Strong wrote this: that it is a part of a whole [group] removed and taken somewhere else while the rest of the group is left. Again this is a perfect description of the rapture: a part of the whole population of earth will be snatched away from the whole group. And it will happen SO FAST it will seem like the rest of the world did not even move: they were stationary.

I would like to call this a bold lie but I don't know if it's deliberate on your part of if you are telling other people's lies, and have been just too lazy to check. Let's post the actual entry from Strong's for the word 'apostasia' shall we?

Strong's Greek 646:

Strong's Concordance

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

HELPS Word-studies

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

 

As you can see from the above highlight 'apostasia' comes from 'aphistemi' but has no other root. Apostasia is the feminine of 647, apostasion, a neuter, which means something separated, divorce, writing of divorcement, which is a derivative of 868, aphistemi, where we see the action of removal (where the wolves get the idea of the false rapture story, but they're so very wrong) of oneself from what they once believed. The definition carries the meanings, instigate a revolt, refrain, draw away, desist, desert, withdraw; all individual acts.

Apo, 575, "(apo')
Short Definition: from, away from
Definition: from, away from."

Histemi, 2476, "Short Definition: I cause to stand, stand
Definition: trans: (a) I make to stand, place, set up, establish, appoint; mid: I place myself, stand, (b) I set in balance, weigh; intrans: (c) I stand, stand by, stand still; met: I stand ready, stand firm, am steadfast"  Clearly a person moving away from where they were once standing, by individual choice. 

So you are incorrect in this. Apostasia does NOT come from apo and stasia, it emanates from apostasion, or divorce, which is derived from aphistemi, a compound of apo and histemi, which means the personal act of withdrawing oneself from something.  

Where in the name of Jesus do you see a departing from once place to another through the forcible snatching away action of another power in any or all of these words and/or definitions?

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If Paul had not written, "and now you know" perhaps most would miss his real meaning.  

Next, there is parallelism here: with several verses. In the first part of the verse or verses it is the restrainer being taken out of the way, and in the second part of the verse or verses, it is the man of sin being revealed.

Who knows when you don't post the verse in question. We supposed to take your word for it? I don't think so.

But again the cherry picking rears it's ugly deception. Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". Finish the quote and you might begin to gain credibility.

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Ultimately Paul point to them was, there is no need to be greatly disturbed: people can know for SURE that the DAY has come and they are in it, when they see the man of sin revealed - but not to worry, for the great departing [of the church] must come first.

Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". And we already proved there is no departing from one place to another in 2 Thess 2:1-8. But what you are explaining has nothing to do with what Paul said. You've simply conjured a dark fantasy from an even darker imagination of the deception of the wolves. 

No believer is going to be in the Day of the Lord because the Day of the Lord is the day of wrath. This is what Paul is teaching. It's not possible Paul taught anyone they would 'be in the day of the Lord' when they saw the revealing of the beast for the very reason you give; the church would not be here, they would not care when the beast was revealed as they would already be gone in the pretrib rapture nonsense. Paul would not have to teach anyone this as believers are not appointed to wrath, so the time of the beast would not matter in relation to the gathering. But Paul never taught such a thing. He said the beast would come first, then the Lord will appear, that's why 2 Thess 2:1-8 is vital to the faith and understanding of all believers in Jesus. 

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

One thing that is very certain: the gathering is NOT the DAY nor is the DAY the same as the gathering. The truth is, the gathering will be the trigger for the DAY. Paul shows us this is both letters. He certainly would not disagree with his first letter in his second letter.

Honestly, do you hear what you speak? If the gathering is the trigger for the day then the day begins when the gathering occurs. Yes? Like a gun. Pull the trigger, the weapon fires, at nearly the same instant. So it would then be the very same time, same day, two events. You got that right even if you contradict your own words. But it's not quite right yet, is it?

[Marilyn C]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:37 AM, Heb 13:8 said:

Is 1 Thess 5:1 telling us that we do not need scripture, youtube or the internet to know when the Day of the Lord comes.

graphó: to write
Original Word: γράφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: graphó
Phonetic Spelling: (graf'-o)
Short Definition: I write
Definition: I write; pass: it is written, it stands written (in the scriptures).

The Day of the Lord

1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write (graphó) to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

This should be in prophecy section. - Heb

 

Hi Heb 13: 8,

Why are believers told this - because

`...you are not in darkness.....you are children of the light....` The Holy Spirit will enlighten us as the time draws nearer.

BTW `they` the nations, the people of darkness are looking for `peace and safety,` (Security - same Gk word). The UN has that as its main theme. Thus very soon after the Russian War there will be the Peace treaty and all nations will cry, `Peace and Safety` at last, BUT then sudden destruction as the judgments of God will fall.

Marilyn. 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

All the wishful thinking in the world cannot remedy this, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our being gathered to him, " It's both, on the same day, s, first the sign, then His appenearly at the same moment as Matthew records arance and then the angels gather the elect.The rapture does not trigger the day of the Lord. The one and only gathering detailed in the Gospels comes after the signs and the appearance of Jesus.

Paul explained no such thing in 1 Thess as the  nonexistent 'rapture'  'triggering' anything other than redemption, new bodies, new names, etc.

The only departure in

2 Thess is a departure from the faith. The word is 'apotasia' which is rebellion. The word used in 2 Thess is NOT 'aphistemi', which is a defection in any case, a departure from an ideology, NOT a departure from one place to another.

Paul is very clear that what withholds is the rebellion and the revealing of the man of sin, holding back the coming of the Lord and the one and only gathering of the saints of God. What you repeat is what you have heard. The wolves have taught you to believe the 'restrainer' is the church or the Holy Spirit or Micheal, none of which is true. Read it again, but before that let me cite the passage containing only the antecedents and the descendants:

 "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time." 

Quite obvious the Lord's coming is being held back by the two events that must occur first: the rebellion and the revealing of the beast. Paul says, "now you know WHAT is holding him back", not WHO. The direct antecedent of the WHAT is the rebellion and the revealing of the beast. No matter what you may have heard I guarantee you are just parroting and have not done the research. I used to do the same thing, until I read the passage. Which you should do as well.

Why not finish the quote? Cause it would disprove your beliefs? It's intellectually dishonest to use snips and sound bites to prove a point. Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". So, WHAT is holding back what or whom? Well, it's the events of rebellion and revealing holding back the appearance of Jesus and the gathering. You don't have to take my word for it, you should but it's not required, you'll when no 'rapture' occurs and the beast is revealed as sitting the Temple proclaiming himself to be god. Not a hard thing to discern, just read the scripture and take it at it's word. Simple.

Well, no. The church is not taken out of the way. The refutation of this falsehood follows below. Somewhere, I think. Wait, I think it was above.

No. Because the beast has been revealed DOES NOT mean anything has been removed. I mean seriously, "the man of sin has been revealed is defined only through the restrainer being taken out of the way"?

 

I would like to call this a bold lie but I don't know if it's deliberate on your part of if you are telling other people's lies, and have been just too lazy to check. Let's post the actual entry from Strong's for the word 'apostasia' shall we?

Strong's Greek 646:

Strong's Concordance

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

HELPS Word-studies

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

 

As you can see from the above highlight 'apostasia' comes from 'aphistemi' but has no other root. Apostasia is the feminine of 647, apostasion, a neuter, which means something separated, divorce, writing of divorcement, which is a derivative of 868, aphistemi, where we see the action of removal (where the wolves get the idea of the false rapture story, but they're so very wrong) of oneself from what they once believed. The definition carries the meanings, instigate a revolt, refrain, draw away, desist, desert, withdraw; all individual acts.

Apo, 575, "(apo')
Short Definition: from, away from
Definition: from, away from."

Histemi, 2476, "Short Definition: I cause to stand, stand
Definition: trans: (a) I make to stand, place, set up, establish, appoint; mid: I place myself, stand, (b) I set in balance, weigh; intrans: (c) I stand, stand by, stand still; met: I stand ready, stand firm, am steadfast"  Clearly a person moving away from where they were once standing, by individual choice. 

So you are incorrect in this. Apostasia does NOT come from apo and stasia, it emanates from apostasion, or divorce, which is derived from aphistemi, a compound of apo and histemi, which means the personal act of withdrawing oneself from something.  

Where in the name of Jesus do you see a departing from once place to another through the forcible snatching away action of another power in any or all of these words and/or definitions?

Who knows when you don't post the verse in question. We supposed to take your word for it? I don't think so.

But again the cherry picking rears it's ugly deception. Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". Finish the quote and you might begin to gain credibility.

Paul said, "now you know what is holding him back". And we already proved there is no departing from one place to another in 2 Thess 2:1-8. But what you are explaining has nothing to do with what Paul said. You've simply conjured a dark fantasy from an even darker imagination of the deception of the wolves. 

No believer is going to be in the Day of the Lord because the Day of the Lord is the day of wrath. This is what Paul is teaching. It's not possible Paul taught anyone they would 'be in the day of the Lord' when they saw the revealing of the beast for the very reason you give; the church would not be here, they would not care when the beast was revealed as they would already be gone in the pretrib rapture nonsense. Paul would not have to teach anyone this as believers are not appointed to wrath, so the time of the beast would not matter in relation to the gathering. But Paul never taught such a thing. He said the beast would come first, then the Lord will appear, that's why 2 Thess 2:1-8 is vital to the faith and understanding of all believers in Jesus. 

Honestly, do you hear what you speak? If the gathering is the trigger for the day then the day begins when the gathering occurs. Yes? Like a gun. Pull the trigger, the weapon fires, at nearly the same instant. So it would then be the very same time, same day, two events. You got that right even if you contradict your own words. But it's not quite right yet, is it?

 "Apostasia is the feminine of 647, apostasion"  BOTH are compound words! I guess I must do your homework for you.

ä-po-stä-sē'-ä (Key)

Part of Speech

feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)

 

Note carefully: apostasia is the feminine form of apostasion  If you knew something about Spanish there are similar rules for feminine in Spanish. 

Now look at apostasion:

 

Neuter of a (presumed) adj. from a derivative of ἀφίστημι (G868)

 

Now we have a form neither feminine or masculine:  aphistēmi

It still has the ap but the o is dropped from apo. But now lets look at aphistemi:
 

From ἀπό (G575) and ἵστημι (G2476)

 

They are ALL compound words! Feminine, masculine, or neutor, all are compound!

Now lets look at APO the first part of this compound word:

 

• of separation

  1. of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

  2. of separation of a part from the whole

     1. where of a whole some part is taken

  3. of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

  4. of a state of separation, that is of distance

     1. physical, of distance of place

     2. temporal, of distance of time

Now for the other part of the compound word:  histēmi

 

to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

1. to bid to stand by, [set up]

   1. in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin;

   2. to place

2. to make firm, fix establish

   1. to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

What does a stationary engine do? It STANDS without moving! Did you imagine I just made this stuff up? No, I copied it almost word for word from Strongs. 

Apo CAN MEAN separation of a part from the whole, where the part is moved distance wise, or spatially.  Do you think Paul might have known what these two Greek words meant separately and that they could be combined to form a compound word?

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our being gathered to him," 

What did Paul write?

¹⁵ For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

OF COURSE there is a coming at the rapture! No one has ever said Jesus does not "come" for the rapture; but this we know, He will not touch down! He will come to the air. 

HE COMES - the DEAD are raised - the alive are changed - together they are caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds - and THEN it is the DAY OF THE LORD. 

We could say then that HIS COMING will be the trigger for the dead rising, the dead rising will be the trigger for the earthquake, and the earthquake will be the start of HIS WRATH and the DAY of the Lord.

The rapture event then IS NOT a part of the DAY nor can it possibly be. It is the trigger so MUST come first. Anyone that imagines the DAY = the rapture and the rapture  = the DAY are sadly mistaken. 

"then His appearance nearly at the same moment as Matthew records and then the angels gather the elect."  No wonders your theories are so far off! The gathering in Matthew is NOT PAUL'S RAPTURE! It comes AFTER the 70th week, while Paul's rapture comes BEFORE the 70th week. NEVER shall the twain meet! There will be 7 years between! Next, the gathering in Matthew 24 gathers from heaven. Paul's rapture gathers from earth. It is simply impossible these two passages come at the same time or are about the same event.  Matthew knew NOTHING about the Gentile church. Matthew was recording Jesus answer to questions by Jewish men about the end of THEIR AGE. This is absolute and is proven by Jesus mention of the abomination in the midst of the week - that is DANIEL'S 70th week for HIS PEOPLE.  It is no wonder you disagree so much. You are talking oranges while I am talking apples! 

Go back and notice that THE DAY begins in chapter 6 of Revelation while His coming as shown in Matthew 24  is in chapter 19! 

The one and only gathering detailed in the Gospels  AGain, it is NO WONDER we disagree. Get off the oranges and go to the apples! THe Gentile church of which we are a part has very little to do with the gospels! Jesus was talking to JEWS about the end of THEIR age. It is totally different than the end of the church age of which we are a part. There will be a time when the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. THEN the church age ends and the 70th week of Daniel - for HIS people - will begin. Again, NEVER shall the twain meet. God will finish with the church and the church age, and then go to the Jews and the 70th week. Again, oranges versus apples. Why on earth would anyone look in the gospels for information about the Gentile church?

Paul explained no such thing in 1 Thes [as what you read in Matthew 24?]  No, Paul did not use the word "trigger." There were no guns in Paul's day. However, you and I know a "trigger" triggers are begins something. We know that the rapture events will BEGIN by Jesus coming to the air.

The word is 'apotasia' which is rebellion.  it can certainly mean a departing or departure, but "apostasia" does NOT tell what is being departed from. You have to assume it would be a departure from the faith. As Strongs has shown, it can also mean removing "departing" of a part of a whole from the entire group. How interesting that "taking out of the way" seems to fit that scenario so well. You think Paul might have known this? After all, HE wrote "taken out of the way."

Quite obvious the Lord's coming is being held back by the two events that must occur first: the rebellion and the revealing of the beast.   This is fantasy! Only ONE THING comes "first" and it is first before "THAT DAY.". You are reading these verses with SO MUCH preconceived ideas you are not reading clearly! THROW OUT all your theories and just read it for what is says!  Form your theory from what is actually written! Next, it is THE DAY Paul is talking about, NOT HIS COMING.

"for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,"

Apostasia [a departing or departure] must come first.  First after what? THAT DAY. There is no "coming" mentioned in verse 3. We must get coming from verse 1 which is tied to the gathering, NOT THE DAY.  Get this straight once and for all: "THE DAY" does NOT equal "the gathering!" They are two separate events and one MUST come before the other. One is a good thing (the gathering) while the DAY is a very dark day of destruction. 

now you know WHAT is holding him back"  Yes, the restraining force can certainly be a "what."

I guarantee you are just parroting and have not done the research.  You are guessing. It is not wise. It is very likely I have spent many more hours of study on this passage than you have. You only say this because I disagree with you. However, what I write FITS the passage, while yours does not. Go back and check again: is the man of sin revealed in 3B?  By the way, everything I write about 2 Thes. 2 is my own creation based on many hours of study and waiting on the Lord. 

So, WHAT is holding back what or whom? Well, it's the events of rebellion and revealing holding back the appearance of Jesus and the gathering.  You are living in the land of MYTH. This is not AT ALL the intent of the Author! Go back and read it again! 

AMP:   ⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. ⁸ Then the lawless one [the Antichrist] will be revealed 

It is the revealing that is being restrained! That is the revealing of the MAN OF SIN. 

Sorry, you are SO FAR OFF from the common beliefs in this passage I must quit. You are just allowing your imagination run with your preconceived theories - NONE of which really fit this passage.

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The Holy Spirit will enlighten us as the time draws nearer.

While the majority of christians think Rev 12:1-5 is astrology or has occurred 2000 years ago...

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

While the majority of christians think Rev 12:1-5 is astrology or has occurred 2000 years ago...

Hi Heb,

I hear what you say, however.....a Christian, (in the truest sense) is a follower of Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Those ones you talk of are following someone else!!!

Marilyn.

 

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, you are SO FAR OFF from the common beliefs in this passage I must quit. You are just allowing your imagination run with your preconceived theories - NONE of which really fit this passage.

When you see the beast rise through the power of Satan to confirm the covenant, contact me.

When you hear trumpet blasts after this, contact me.

When you see the two witnesses in Jerusalem, contact me.

(all of the above will be occurring in conjunction)

Don't wait till the beast ascends the Temple, too late to contact me.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Diaste

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

When you see the beast rise through the power of Satan to confirm the covenant, contact me.

When you hear trumpet blasts after this, contact me.

When you see the two witnesses in Jerusalem, contact me.

(all of the above will be occurring in conjunction)

Don't wait till the beast ascends the Temple, too late to contact me.

Until you understand what I am about to write, you will never be correct on Revelation or end times doctrine.

There was a church in the wilderness: Moses was the spokesman. Prophecies were made of a coming Messiah.

Finally the Messiah came and another church came about: Peter was the spokesman. He taught the gospel of the Kingdom. he taught that if they would believe in Jesus as their Messiah they would be saved. This church came out of the church in the wilderness. But this church died out. Before it did, however:

Paul came with new revelation and a MYSTERY church came about. It did NOT come from the previous churches, but was NEW and a mystery. It was Christ in the Gentiles. It was the Body of Christ on earth. Paul was the spokesman. He taught that Gentiles could be saved by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.  It was a new age: the age of Grace. Paul taught that when the age of Grace would end - when the fullness of the Gentile would come in, THEN time would revert right back to Jewish time and it would be the time of the 70th week of Daniel.

There are end time prophecies related to both the Jewish church of which Peter was the spokesman, and there are other prophecies that relate to the Gentile church and the age of Grace. Confuse these two and the result is a mixed up mess of untruth.

You are mixing up the prophecies for the Jewish church with the prophecies of the Gentile church. it is no wonder then that the result is confusion. For the end of the Gentile church of which we are a part, we MUST go only to the Pauline Epistles. Period and end of story. the exception would be the book of Revelation which covers mostly the Jewish church, but a tiny bit for the Gentile church.

For those that know these truths, they know they will NEVER SEE the Beast. Only those left behind in Paul's rapture will see the beast. I will not be contacting you for any of the listed reasons. I will be in heaven.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

While the majority of christians think Rev 12:1-5 is astrology or has occurred 2000 years ago...

Why did God put Virgo in the sky? Was it an accident? Hardly! It tells the story of a virgin having a child. And the scripture in Rev. 12 gives us information about that: the birth of Christ. If you wish to attach some secondary meaning, that is up to you.