The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rev 12:1-5 has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. The woman is Israel iam.

Isa 50:1 This is what the LORD says: “Where is your mother's certificate of divorce with which I sent her away? Or to which of my creditors did I sell you? Because of your sins you were sold; because of your transgressions your mother was sent away.

Jer 3:8 Because faithless Israel had committed adultery, I gave her a certificate of divorce and sent her away. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear and prostituted herself as well.

Ah but they are. The Great Sign is just that, it's a sign and all signs point to an event in the future. The event is rapture and the 70th week. The church was conceived through Israel (our mother) at Pentecost 2000 years ago. The word harpazo is in no relation to Jesus iam, the church is the one being caught up to His throne. God bless.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this and wait and see. I believe when we are in heaven, you will have to look me up and say you were mistaken. But we won't care then!

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Well let me ask you this, if not Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks how else would God fulfill the Great Sign???????

The last trump in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 is not in reference to the 7th trump. The trumpets and bowls are God's wrath, and the church is not appointed to wrath.

Finally: something we agree on: the "last trump" will sound 3 1/2 years before the 7th trump of Revelation.  Since you don't understand the "great sign" of Virgo is in reference to Jesus' birth, then Jupiter is not in the picture.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Yes, in Rev 12:5!!!

She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Oh! The verse about the birth of Christ! So one error leads you to many errors.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, being anointed on your daily walk has nothing to do with conception or birth.

Then why do you keep writing of "corporate conception?" Acts 2 is the church receiving the anointing for ministry. 

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The beast from the sea with 10 horns in Daniel 7, the beast from the sea in Revelation 13, and the beast from the abyss in Revelation 17 are all the same evil spirit being.  Just because they aren't described identically in each instance doesn't make them different.  Their descriptions are relevant to the context in which they are described.  If we are to take each mention as a completely separate instance then there would be 21 heads and 40 horns between the dragon and the mentions of the beast.

In Daniel 7, we see the beast with ten horns, presumably one head, and no crowns.  The focus is on the 10 horns and the little horn who ripped three of them out by the roots and became the big horn who waged war against the saints for 42 months.

In Revelation 13, the beast with 10 horns has crowns on the horns to indicate, like you said, that he is over the 10 kings.  He is also pictured with seven heads that he didn't have before in Daniel 7.  The seven heads come from Satan indicate that he has received Satan's power and throne.  The rest of his appearance in Revelation 13 (leopard, bear, lion) can be traced back to the other beasts in Daniel 7.  The inference is that the other evil spirit beasts of Daniel 7 have given their power and authority to this beast too.  The context of Revelation 13 is to show the interplay between the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.  Have you ever wondered why  Satan would give his power, throne, and great authority to anyone, ever?  The best I can surmise is that Satan puts this evil spirit beast in charge temporarily while he enters the false prophet for the purpose of performing the amazing signs and wonders that deceive the world.  This is supported by the fact that the false prophet "speaks like a dragon" and it wouldn't be the first time that Satan entered the son of perdition.

In Revelation 17, the mystery of the harlot and the beast who carries her is explained.  There's no need to mention crowns.  We know that the beast described here is the same beast in Revelation 13 because of this verse:

• The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.  These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.  Revelation 17:12-13

Although the word "crowns" isn't used, this passage describes perfectly what the crowns represent, so "crowns" can be easily implied.  The reference to the beast being an 8th king is used because the United Nations has no real "king" so he is considered the defacto leader of that global government until the man of sin comes along and Satan enters him and the fireworks begin.

I do agree that Satan is pictured as having 10 horns because he is the leader of it all.  There are only 7 heads and 10 horns.  The seven heads are Satan's and represent his power, throne and great authority as demonstrated in the kingdoms you mentioned.  The ten horns belong to the beast and are subservient to him as the verse above indicates. 

Good job, Last Daze!

[Revelation Man]

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The beast from the sea with 10 horns in Daniel 7, the beast from the sea in Revelation 13, and the beast from the abyss in Revelation 17 are all the same evil spirit being.  Just because they aren't described identically in each instance doesn't make them different.  Their descriptions are relevant to the context in which they are described.  If we are to take each mention as a completely separate instance then there would be 21 heads and 40 horns between the dragon and the mentions of the beast.

No they are not brother. One is the Red Dragon and CALLED such and chapter 12 describes him as Satan . One is the coming Anti-Christ and chapter 13 describes him as such, the man who has a partner, the false prophet, and both are cast into hell together in Rev. 19:20. Then in Rev. 17 the Scarlet Colored Beast (Scarlet is not Red, its Purple) is shown to be Apollyon, the Beast that is locked in the bottomless pit, Satan is not locked in the Bottomless Pit until the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. The chapter is about the Harlot and the Beast she rides. The Harlot brought forth False Religion from the cradle of society, the Apollyon Beast was over this region, he was called the prince of Persia in Daniel ch. 10.

1.) Chapter 12 is about the Dragon chasing the Woman Israel into the Wilderness, he is described as having also tried to kill Jesus 2000 years ago, the Anti-Christ was not around 2000 years ago, men are not reborn.

2.) Chapter 13 is about the Anti-Christ and his False Prophet, the whole chapter is about him commanding worship or death.

3.) Chapter 17 is about Apollyon, the Beast that is of the SEVEN and is an 8th, which has been locked in the pit and will eventually be released, thus HE WAS...is not...YET IS. 

A Beast only represents a DOMINANT ANIMAL....So the point is these THREE ENTITIES Dominate the Mediterranean Sea Region, that is all it means, thus Satan is over the Whole World as he told Jesus, "All these Kingdoms are given unto me". Apollyon was ASSIGNED the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan, thus he is OF THE SEVEN, but he has been locked in the bottomless pit for nigh 2000 years, not allowed to bring forth the Last Beast Head. Then we have the Last Beast Head, not a Kingdom per se this time because he never passes his Kingdom on to another, thus he alone is the BEAST over Israel and the region this time, and that is why Daniel 7:11 says the BEASTS Body is destroyed, and cast into the BURNING FIRE !! So they all three represent a Dominant Animal that has reigned over Israel along with the whole Region, but Israel has to be alive, and she was as Dead Men's Bones for 2000 years. 

You seem to confuse the Beast with being only ONE ENTITY, it in reality only represents any entity that Dominates. We thus have the Seven Earthly Kingdoms seen as One via the Seven Heads, and one of the Heads has 10 Horns. That is the Anti-Christ, thus the 10 CROWNS. Then we have Satan the Red Dragon who is over all 7 of the Beasts, thus he has 7 CROWNS, of course hes over every earthly Kingdom, but only the Seven Mediterranean Sea Region Empires are being spoken of here. And finally we have the Rev. 17 Beast with NO CROWNS, he is under Satan and he is not a Physical Being so his CROWNS if he had any must be in the Spiritual realm, and thus Satan is the ultimate King there, of course.

All three are Described in Juxtaposition to the 7 Heads and 10 Horns. Satan is over the world and thus these 7, Apollyon was assigned to the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus he was the prince of Persia who resisted Micheal etc. etc. And lastly the Anti-Christ is the 7th Head with 10 Horns, he is of the 7 and over the 10 Horns. 

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

In Daniel 7, we see the beast with ten horns, presumably one head, and no crowns.  The focus is on the 10 horns and the little horn who ripped three of them out by the roots and became the big horn who waged war against the saints for 42 months.

 

The Little Horn is not described as such in Revelation 13, hes described looking back in time, John is in the future remember, he sees him as the FINAL HEAD or the 7th Head of the overall Figurative Beast. The book of Revelation never mentions the three that are plucked out, but I assume he murders three of the original 10 Kings who gave him his power, they must see who he is/what he is and try to resist him in some capacity. The 10 CROWNS in Rev. 13 only describe a MAN as being over the 10, thus in Daniel we are told he plucks up three by the roots, thus we understand he is OVER the 10, same thing different terminology. Daniel and Revelation describes the Little Horn/Beast as a MAN, with a mouth and eyes who lies and blasphemes and of course goes to war with Israel/Saints. 

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

In Revelation 13, the beast with 10 horns has crowns on the horns to indicate, like you said, that he is over the 10 kings.  He is also pictured with seven heads that he didn't have before in Daniel 7.  The seven heads come from Satan indicate that he has received Satan's power and throne.  The rest of his appearance in Revelation 13 (leopard, bear, lion) can be traced back to the other beasts in Daniel 7.  The inference is that the other evil spirit beasts of Daniel 7 have given their power and authority to this beast too.  The context of Revelation 13 is to show the interplay between the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.

This is a might long, but I sense we are more in tune with each other here so why not go the extra mile !! I think you see it pretty correctly, but like I used to do you see it all as the same Beast, I used to argue that until about a year or 2 ago also. Remember, the Little Horn is never spoken of here in Revelation, hes just one of the Seven Heads, all the Little Horn reference meant in Daniel was that he is not your typical Beast or Horn like Alexander the Great etc. etc. in that he is only ONE MAN not a Kingdom per se, thus Daniel called him a Little Horn, I think Gabriel was trying to relay the inference that he was going to be a ONE MAN SHOW so to speak, with no predecessor nor successor. 

The Seven Heads is John looking back through all of time via Jesus. Daniel was only shown Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome........... the Little Horn and  his 10 Horns. God is a wonderous God, what was His original plans? What if the Jews/Israel had of accepted Jesus ? Would he have rescued them in 70 AD ? This gives me chills, this came unto me a few weeks back, it is not set in stone yet, I am researching it, but if Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah, does the 70th week come 2000 years ago ? Does the Little Horn also Arise 2000 years ago ? Does the Statue complete itself 2000 years ago ? Would there have ever been a 2000 year Church Age ? You see, God knew all of this was coming, but mankind doesn't always follow God's will, of course !! Now the 2000 year SKIP in the Beasts and Statue makes more sense, the Church Age delivered a Mortal Wound to the Seven Headed Figurative Beast, Apollyon was placed in the Bottomless Pit, Satan was not allowed to continue his march towards a One World Government, the Church was given power over ALL Demons, so now 2 Thessalonians 2 makes sense also, the Church MUST DEPART before the Man of Sin can come forth, now we know what BINDS until it (CHURCH) be taken OUR OF THE WAY !! Amen. We the Church can not be overcome by Satan, the gates of hell can not prevail against the Church. The Man of Sin can only come forth when the Church DEPARTS to Heaven. 

The Seven Heads are in reality only Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ. The only thing that separates them all is the 2000 year Church Age. Likewise I think Egypt was separated via King David's age so to speak, it was akin to the Church Age in that Israel served God for a time it seems, then with disobedience and idolatry came rebuke, Assyria took away the 10 tribes, then Babylon placed the Jews in bondage for 70 years etc. etc. So all men who are of this world are of Satan, even if they don't realize it.

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Have you ever wondered why  Satan would give his power, throne, and great authority to anyone, ever?  The best I can surmise is that Satan puts this evil spirit beast in charge temporarily while he enters the false prophet for the purpose of performing the amazing signs and wonders that deceive the world.  This is supported by the fact that the false prophet "speaks like a dragon" and it wouldn't be the first time that Satan entered the son of perdition.

I think its referring to the Little Horn or Beasts throne on earth, Satan is over every Kingdom, remember Luke 4 ? He told Jesus all of this was his to give as he so chooses. As per who Satan may and may not enter I know not, but all of these men are clearly evil, and not of God, but the Beast and False Prophet are cast into HELL and Satan is placed in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, then cast into hell with them in Rev. 20:10. All three are Beasts over Israel, as were the other nations I mentioned above at one time or another.

As per the False Prophet, I think it means he professes to be of God (Lamb) but speaks as a Dragon. In other words hes going to be like Jason in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, he was the High Priest but tried to Hellenize the Jews. He sold out his brother by paying Antiochus a bribe, AE4 then had his pious brother Onias III killed. I think the False Prophet will do likewise. Also I think hes a BEAST (Dominates) over Religion in the End Times.

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

In Revelation 17, the mystery of the harlot and the beast who carries her is explained.  There's no need to mention crowns.  We know that the beast described here is the same beast in Revelation 13 because of this verse:

• The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.  These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.  Revelation 17:12-13

Lets use some context here brother.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.  {{{ Remember this is the Scarlet Colored Beast, he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region, then he was LOCKED in the Bottomless Pit where he is at NOW........Yet he will be released in Rev. 9:1. Thus HE WAS......IS NOT......YET IS. }}}

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. {{{ The Seven Heads are SEVEN RULERS (Not Mountains but Rulers who Arise) where the Woman (False Religion) sits.....And they are SEVEN KINGS.........5 Have fallen........ONE IS........and one is not yet come, when he comes he will rule a SHORT TIME as in 42 Months, whereas the others were Kingdoms passed on for generations. }}}

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. {{ The Beast that was...IS NOT...He is the 8th King and is OF THE SEVEN !! Meaning he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region and thus was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome and WILL BE OVER the Anti-Christ thus he of course is OF THE SEVEN and is an 8th. He is over that Region, he was the prince of Persia in Dan. 10.}}

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

{{ The 10 Horns do receive power one hour with THE BEAST, the Beast/Little Horn who arises with the 10 is the 7th Head above. The ONE that is Yet to come. The Scarlet Colored Beast however is not released unto Rev. 9:1, he is Apollyon. }}

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Although the word "crowns" isn't used, this passage describes perfectly what the crowns represent, so "crowns" can be easily implied.  The reference to the beast being an 8th king is used because the United Nations has no real "king" so he is considered the defacto leader of that global government until the man of sin comes along and Satan enters him and the fireworks begin.

I do agree that Satan is pictured as having 10 horns because he is the leader of it all.  There are only 7 heads and 10 horns.  The seven heads are Satan's and represent his power, throne and great authority as demonstrated in the kingdoms you mentioned.  The ten horns belong to the beast and are subservient to him as the verse above indicates. 

I wouldn't worry about the United Nations brother, they are a toothless tiger. 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Last Daze]

30 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I wouldn't worry about the United Nations brother, they are a toothless tiger. 

I agree, but that platform has been used to push the globalist agenda.

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Remember what Paul wrote: THEY get caught in the sudden destruction, but WE (those living in the light of Christ) get salvation: we get raptured out before sudden destruction can harm us.  I agree: soon: probably THIS YEAR: it is the 70th year since 1948.

or 80 years in Psa 90:10.

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

We will just have to agree to disagree on this and wait and see. I believe when we are in heaven, you will have to look me up and say you were mistaken. But we won't care then!

I guess we'll see.

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Finally: something we agree on: the "last trump" will sound 3 1/2 years before the 7th trump of Revelation.  Since you don't understand the "great sign" of Virgo is in reference to Jesus' birth, then Jupiter is not in the picture.

The last trump is the rapture which kick starts the 70th week. Jesus wasn't harpazo'd.

You still haven't answered my question. If not Jupiter, then how is the child birthed??