stillseeking Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 146 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 86 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Quote One on one friendships where the love of Christ is displayed within that relationship is what will win them in the end. I know someone who has an atheist friend who she has been fervently witnessing to for years. The atheist kept saying, "That's what YOU believe. But don't push it on me." She didn't heed that. Eventually,this blatant disregard for the friends feelings led to the atheist threatening to END their long time friendship. She was shocked to her senses. Finally, she backed off and chose to respect the friend and practice kindness instead. 'Loving on' her, as they say. Well- now the atheist is starting to soften. She still has a long way to go, but at least it is a beginning. Perhaps you could pray for this atheist? She is in her 80's and may not have much time left on earth. Her name is Jane. They say 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.' or you make more friends by being nice than rude. Now that the Christian mellowed out in her behavior, the atheist Jane realizes she genuinely cares about HER, as a person rather that seeking to chalk up the success of 'making one more convert.' Makes sense to me. People have feelings, after all. Including atheists, of course. Besides, it is the HOLY SPIRIT who convicts. The word of God will not return void, as scripture says. The seeds are planted. Now it's in the Lord's Hands to draw Jane. Sorry this is so long. Hope it helps somebody. Will pray for Jane; thanks for bringing this forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 You said,"You're not convicting anyone of anything if you've not given them a reason to believe that their sin is wrong. Instead, you're expressing to them that YOU think it's wrong." I agree with that, stillseeking. I've seen these street preaching ( film-me-where ever-I-go) 'ministries' do crazy stuff...like preach at the unsaved women out there for dressing in a provocative way. All I could do is think how futile it is to try to 'clean up the sinner." That is the Holy Spirit's job. He does this through regeneration. Scripture tells us He makes people new creations. And the sins fall off due to the power of God taking over. Anyway, this makes no sense. What good is a squeaky clean sinner?? You just replace skimpy clothes with the covering of pride! If I were in the world and dressed that way ( It's in style, btw to show too much flesh) I'd probably say, "Who do you think you are to scold me for this? It's none of your business." This only hardens hearts, imo. No wonder atheists get confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 stillseeking, Thanks for letting me know you will be praying for Jane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 hours ago, bryan said: There's a lot of 'it depends' in both how people approach atheists and others, how they communicate, and whether it's a real dialogue. In my case, after growing up in a church with many practices and beliefs far different from those in the bible, I didn't become an atheist. I knew there was 'a God', but I decided that whatever god that church worshiped with all the evil things they did, I didn't want anything to do with them. That drove me away from Christian churches for many years. In fact, I'd do anything I could to convince others to avoid them as well so they could avoid going through those same evil practices. My point here isn't to condemn any church, but to help people realize many 'atheists' may not be as one might assume. In fact, assuming things about atheists instead of taking a few minutes to ask questions and actually listen is frequently a problem. In the years that I was against Christianity, I personally encountered many of the things stillseeking describes. What did that do? I convinced me other Christian churches were likely just as evil as the first one, so I should stay away from them and keep trying to 'fight evil' as I had been. Good point. In my lifetime I have seen the hypocrisy in churches turn people off and away from the Lord. Sadly, some in my immediate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 22 hours ago, Adstar said: When i perceive i am talking to a person who has no idea about Christian ""jargon"" i will modify my words from sin to transgression or doing something against the will of God. I know a lot of Christians who where raised as church goers who have listened to preachers and read scriptures have no idea that other people do not know what the word sin and other Bible terms mean.. It took me awhile, but I realized over time that certain words that are routinely used in witnessing are rarely used in the 'language of the lost.' Sin is definitely one such word. God showed me that as soon as I say it to an unsaved person a mental block can go up. So I keep in simple now. 'Our wrongdoings' is one way I put it. Thanks for pointing this out, Adstar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,200 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,928 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.'' It's been my experience that until this happens there really isn't much of anything we can say to people to make them really understand...… When this happens I think the Holy Spirit gives us what we need to say to that individual person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 9 hours ago, stillseeking said: I disagree. They're probably having an insulted reaction that someone they didn't ask advice from is telling them how to live their life. Similar accusations of "you're wrong" are just as frustrating when the source is another atheist. People just don't like being told they're wrong--and that's why they react. Well now you are adding a new dimension to your points.. And that's unfair.. """They're probably having an insulted reaction that someone they didn't ask advice from is telling them how to live their life"" Where was that in your original points ? You never talked about unsolicited personal evangelism.. If a person does not directly engage me in conversation about my beliefs about God then i do not personally corner them and force anything upon them.. But if they come online here and ask me about Jesus and what Christianity is all about i am definitely going to give them the Law so that the Holy Spirit of God can convict them of their sins.. Now if they are not being moved then the Holy Spirit is not working upon them.. They will soon lose all interest and walk away.. Actually i can walk away without any stress when an atheist walks away from a conversation.. That means i can move onto someone who is a genuine seeker.. I find it incredibly tiresome dealing with atheists who are only out to prove the teachings of God are wrong or some fairy tale.. We are not called upon to bang our heads against brick wall atheists for days on end.. We are called to give the message of the Gospel and then let the Holy Spirit do the real work and we can move on to the next person.. Quote People just don't like being told they're wrong--and that's why they react. Proud people hate being told they are wrong or faulty beings.. Humble people listen and search themselves to see if what they are being told is the truth and take the truth onboard.. So they can progress to the next stage.. The stage where they get the good news of the Atonement Jesus has secured for their transgression.. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble? James 4: KJV 6 "But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." So if we encounter a puffed up proud atheist and they get all offended at being told that sealing is sin then they show that they both reject the standards of God and love that which is evil and they show their too proud to take any conviction.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 18 hours ago, john1 said: I was driven away from God, by people who said you had to be married to have sex. Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 hours ago, stillseeking said: For me, that wasn't exactly it. Once I realized who God was, I was immediately on a quest to figure out what He wanted from me. (I'm still on that quest in many ways, as I have a lot of specifics not quite nailed down.) Which makes me wonder.. Are you saved? Have you fully embraced the Gospel Way of salvation? What causes you have eternal life with God in his eternal existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted July 4, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) On 7/3/2018 at 1:13 AM, stillseeking said: Like the title says, I was an atheist previously. For years, in fact. I know a lot of Christians are born and raised that way, and I want to speak personally to some of the disconnect between those believers who were born and raised as such and the people they're usually the most frustrated they can't reach: atheists. I don't want this to be a super-long read. The following are a few reasons why (many) of you aren't reaching people like me--people who are open to different opinions but are largely disgusted at how their being presented. Do you catch yourself doing any of these? I ask you in that case to pause, be mindful of it, and humbly consider this list of ineffective behaviors: Stating your interpretation of the Bible as gospel truth--especially concerning grey areas. Many atheists and agnostics are far more informed about the Bible than you might expect. They will question your interpretation. Be honest about how you came to adopt the interpretations you did. Even if they disagree with you, you'll both still walk away with mutual respect, and that's super important if you ever plan to follow up with them in any capacity whatsoever. Speaking in any kind of accusatory manner. You may be right that their behavior is sinful, but what's the point in rubbing that in their face when they don't yet believe in a holy God? You've given them no reason yet to believe sin is even wrong. Speaking in any way, of any thing, that is motivated by your own self-righteousness. Be extremely honest with yourself about this. If you think you've achieved "humble", then that's probably a sign to be more humble. Failing to give people the benefit of the doubt when they ask questions or pose doubts. Give them the benefit of the doubt that they're *not* just trying to be annoying/contradict you/win an argument/attack you. If you assume everyone has bad motives, you'll start to believe this assumption even when it's not true, and furthermore, you'll lose the chance to win with kindness. Force feeding people gospel information when they've made it clear they're not interested. Talk to someone who IS interested. Jesus never forced his message on anyone and in fact issued warnings to those who would choose to follow him. Assuming your biblical interpretation is essential doctrine, or speaking to someone as if it is. Treating the desire to prove using logic as some sort of horrible heresy. There are plenty of logical arguments for God. If you don't know any, point them to Ravi Zacharias or John Lennox videos and debates on Youtube (or whomever else you find influential). The attitude that logic must be abandoned in order to follow God is not only ridiculous but incredibly off-putting to an intelligent person. Accusing them of holding a position they don't, just because they question yours. Example: "You believe in abortions? Then you must be a new age feminazi!" Losing your patience for any reason, but especially because of: the content of someone's response, someone's emotions, someone's culture, someone just not matching your expectations I hope this helps. I'd also be happy to discuss what it's like actually BEING an atheist approached by Christians, what I found annoying, and what I found respectful and effective. I'm putting this out there because it's been my observation that the way Christians usually approach atheists is horrible and not at all respectful and effective...and I'd like to help change that. That's all. On 7/3/2018 at 1:13 AM, stillseeking said: Like the title says, I was an atheist previously. For years, in fact. I know a lot of Christians are born and raised that way, and I want to speak personally to some of the disconnect between those believers who were born and raised as such and the people they're usually the most frustrated they can't reach: atheists. I don't want this to be a super-long read. The following are a few reasons why (many) of you aren't reaching people like me--people who are open to different opinions but are largely disgusted at how their being presented. Do you catch yourself doing any of these? I ask you in that case to pause, be mindful of it, and humbly consider this list of ineffective behaviors: Stating your interpretation of the Bible as gospel truth--especially concerning grey areas. Many atheists and agnostics are far more informed about the Bible than you might expect. They will question your interpretation. Be honest about how you came to adopt the interpretations you did. Even if they disagree with you, you'll both still walk away with mutual respect, and that's super important if you ever plan to follow up with them in any capacity whatsoever. Speaking in any kind of accusatory manner. You may be right that their behavior is sinful, but what's the point in rubbing that in their face when they don't yet believe in a holy God? You've given them no reason yet to believe sin is even wrong. Speaking in any way, of any thing, that is motivated by your own self-righteousness. Be extremely honest with yourself about this. If you think you've achieved "humble", then that's probably a sign to be more humble. Failing to give people the benefit of the doubt when they ask questions or pose doubts. Give them the benefit of the doubt that they're *not* just trying to be annoying/contradict you/win an argument/attack you. If you assume everyone has bad motives, you'll start to believe this assumption even when it's not true, and furthermore, you'll lose the chance to win with kindness. Force feeding people gospel information when they've made it clear they're not interested. Talk to someone who IS interested. Jesus never forced his message on anyone and in fact issued warnings to those who would choose to follow him. Assuming your biblical interpretation is essential doctrine, or speaking to someone as if it is. Treating the desire to prove using logic as some sort of horrible heresy. There are plenty of logical arguments for God. If you don't know any, point them to Ravi Zacharias or John Lennox videos and debates on Youtube (or whomever else you find influential). The attitude that logic must be abandoned in order to follow God is not only ridiculous but incredibly off-putting to an intelligent person. Accusing them of holding a position they don't, just because they question yours. Example: "You believe in abortions? Then you must be a new age feminazi!" Losing your patience for any reason, but especially because of: the content of someone's response, someone's emotions, someone's culture, someone just not matching your expectations I hope this helps. I'd also be happy to discuss what it's like actually BEING an atheist approached by Christians, what I found annoying, and what I found respectful and effective. I'm putting this out there because it's been my observation that the way Christians usually approach atheists is horrible and not at all respectful and effective...and I'd like to help change that. That's all. As usual I came in late and reading sometimes to much makes me tired. You say you are no more and atheist. Why Not? What convinced you to become a believer? Was it someone's wittiness or other conviction. Ha this already been asked. My fokes were not really save when I was young. They were traditional people who went to church at Easter. the rest of the time they may have well been athiests. No doubt this was a point of Christian hypocrisy, but whatconvinced you Edited July 4, 2018 by Mike Mclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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