New Testament Inerrancy

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I think the same exact thing could be said of the writings of C.S. Lewis.

It's really all about authority and God and His Word 'IS' the only authority that is here- so says The Lord...

[Still Alive]

8 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

It's really all about authority and God and His Word 'IS' the only authority that is here- so says The Lord...

All we have to do now is define what is to be included in "his word". I know that when the letters to Timothy were penned, there was no new testament, but there were a LOT of things written down. The scripture of Josephus is very interesting and useful stuff, though it is not part of the bible.

[arachnogeek]

7 hours ago, Still Alive said:

For the same reason I can be certain of my relationship with my wife, even if we were to lose our box of letters from when we were dating. i.e. personal relationship trumps written letters, though the letters are part of the foundation on which the relationship was originally built.

This is a false analogy. Here's why: 

 Your relationship to your wife isn't defined by those letters. Our relationship to God is defined within the confines of scripture. You and I have no clue how to relate to our creator aside from what the Bible tells us. You and I have no clue who Jesus is, aside from what the Bible tells us. If divine revelation didn't exist, neither would your relationship to God. End of story. 

Personal relationships trump written letters, UNLESS those 'letters' ARE that relationship. Think about the way your wife communicates with you. Unless your relationship is highly dysfunctional, you two have conversations like normal married couples. With the Lord, however, unless you're a charismatic pentecostal, he speaks to you through his Word. You speak to Him through prayer, and he answers through his Word. 

 

There's just no reason to think that romantic letters between a man and a woman can be compared with the way God uses his Word to speak with his people. The Bible isn't just a foundation for our relationship to God; it is the very essence of how we commune with Him. 

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I disagree. (Used in place of "opinions vary":D)

 

BTW, I don't have "Doubts". 

You  doubt the authority of Scripture.

[enoob57]

18 hours ago, Still Alive said:

All we have to do now is define what is to be included in "his word". I know that when the letters to Timothy were penned, there was no new testament, but there were a LOT of things written down. The scripture of Josephus is very interesting and useful stuff, though it is not part of the bible.

This is the age old lie of demons that proclaim because there are lies abounding in this place truth cannot be found … a build off of this lie is what you are positioned in by self determined authority.  There are 66 books of The Bible and they are the recognized text of God's Word and you have departed from this truth … the why you will be held accountable to God for... The history is decided; The Body of Christ is decided; The work of God is decided by fruit.

[Guest shiloh357]

19 hours ago, Still Alive said:

All we have to do now is define what is to be included in "his word". I know that when the letters to Timothy were penned, there was no new testament, but there were a LOT of things written down. The scripture of Josephus is very interesting and useful stuff, though it is not part of the bible.

Peter, who lived and died at the same time as Paul referred to Paul's letters as Scripture (II Pet. 3:16) and Peter was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when noted that Paul's writings were Scripture.   And Paul referred to Luke 10:7 as Scripture.  

So the fact that the Holy Spirit, who knew what the NT canon would be, stated in II Tim. 3:16, that ALL Scripture  (even the NT Scriptures that had not yet been written at that particular point in time) are inspired by God.   

This silly, shallow and intellectually vacuous notion that II Tim. 3:16 only applies to the OT is nothing but garbage to those who know and love the Scriptures.

[Still Alive]

16 hours ago, arachnogeek said:

This is a false analogy. Here's why: 

 Your relationship to your wife isn't defined by those letters. Our relationship to God is defined within the confines of scripture. You and I have no clue how to relate to our creator aside from what the Bible tells us. You and I have no clue who Jesus is, aside from what the Bible tells us. If divine revelation didn't exist, neither would your relationship to God. End of story. 

Personal relationships trump written letters, UNLESS those 'letters' ARE that relationship. Think about the way your wife communicates with you. Unless your relationship is highly dysfunctional, you two have conversations like normal married couples. With the Lord, however, unless you're a charismatic pentecostal, he speaks to you through his Word. You speak to Him through prayer, and he answers through his Word. 

 

There's just no reason to think that romantic letters between a man and a woman can be compared with the way God uses his Word to speak with his people. The Bible isn't just a foundation for our relationship to God; it is the very essence of how we commune with Him. 

We have different takes. I think the analogy fits. Remember, those letters were read. All 850 of them. It was how we built our relationship. Our courtship was completely long distance. We met at our 25th high school reunion in June. We talked, we danced, we said goodbye. She flew back to her home in South Dakota and I stayed at my home in Seattle.

In July I sent her a multi page letter about the impact she had on me. It stopped her in her tracks. We communicated via 850 emails and I flew to her town in August for a weekend. In September she flew to Seattle for a weekend. I proposed. It's been incredibly bliss ever since (21 years). I'm married to my best friend.

It is based on those letters. But not on the precise words of the letters. Rather, the personality and message within those letters. So yes, they were important and yes, we still occasionally bring some of them out to see how we've changed. But the analogy fits because the key is that we became aware of who each other was, but we no longer DEPEND on those letters to preserve or enhance our relationship, though they have great value.

Same with the bible. The written word is very powerful, and the bible is a huge benefit to the Christian's relationship with our creator, but if I was stuck on a desert island with no bible, I believe God would find a way to preserve and enhance that relationship even without a bible. I mean, he's a pretty smart and motivated guy. He created me (and you) for a specific purpose, just as he did Jesus and every other man that ever lived. Every. Single. One.

On my three hour round trip commute I've been immersing myself in 1 and 2 peter. Fascinating stuff there. It's interesting when he says things like "the end of all things is near", yet that was written around 2,000 years ago. Obviously what ever he was talking about has already happened. Perhaps the destruction of Jerusalem.

[Still Alive]

16 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

You  doubt the authority of Scripture.

No, I don't. What I doubt is a lot of people's interpretation of it. But I'm assuming that by "scripture", you mean the written word as compiled in some bibles (and probably not all), and you don't mean everything written down since the dawn of man, since "scripture" literally means "something written down" - e.g. your and my posts here.

[Still Alive]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

This is the age old lie of demons that proclaim because there are lies abounding in this place truth cannot be found … a build off of this lie is what you are positioned in by self determined authority.  There are 66 books of The Bible and they are the recognized text of God's Word and you have departed from this truth … the why you will be held accountable to God for... The history is decided; The Body of Christ is decided; The work of God is decided by fruit.

You infer way too much that is not true. It's best to focus on the lines I type and be judicious in your inferences regarding what is contained between the lines.

It would be fascinating to you, I suspect, if you were to have a conversation about me with someone that actually knows me. Your perceptions would change.

Your comment about calling my words the "age old lie of demons" reminds me of those folks who, every time you come up with a "modern" teaching with which they disagree will claim you are just tickling people's ears with what they want to hear. But I would say that one could argue that that is a good description of the grace message. I mean, let's be honest. Who wouldn't want to hear that they are saved even though they've done bad stuff?

And I strongly agree regarding knowing a tree by its fruit. The great thing is that the bible is pretty clear regarding our salvation and our walk. As Peter said, "To God’s elect,... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...to be obedient to Jesus Christ..."

Get that? The "elect" are not chosen because they are obedient. They are chosen TO BE obedient. Reminds me of Mary. She wasn't chosen because she was blessed. She was blessed because she was chosen. That "God chooses us, rather than the other way around" meme is pretty common in the bible. I'd say that is something worth being thankful for!

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

No, I don't. What I doubt is a lot of people's interpretation of it. But I'm assuming that by "scripture", you mean the written word as compiled in some bibles (and probably not all), and you don't mean everything written down since the dawn of man, since "scripture" literally means "something written down" - e.g. your and my posts here.

When I say "Scripture"  I mean the 66 books of the Christian Bible and only those 66 books.  This is not an interpretation issue.  It is an issue about inspiration and the authority of Scripture.   You keep trying to make this about interpretation which demonstrates that you don't have a firm. basic grasp on the matters of inerrancy, infallibility and what the Bible means when it says that all  Scripture is God-breathed.