Genesis 6:3

[Christine]

‘And it came to pass, 
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, 
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God 
saw the daughters of men that they were fair; 
and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, 
My spirit shall not always strive with man, 
for that he also is flesh: 
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; 
and also after that, 
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, 
and they bare children to them, 
the same became mighty men 
which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, 
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart 
was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, 
and it grieved Him at His heart.’ 
(Gen 6:1-6)  

* With respect, Retrobyter, I will stand by the verses I have quoted in my previous entries and the testimony that they provide regarding this. For it is the usage which the Holy Spirit makes of the phrase, 'sons of God', that matters; and how the Holy Spirit refers to them retrospectively that determine their meaning, and I have given ample proof of what that is in the verses quoted.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

[Retrobyter]

On 9/3/2018 at 4:50 AM, Christine said:

‘And it came to pass, 
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, 
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God 
saw the daughters of men that they were fair; 
and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, 
My spirit shall not always strive with man, 
for that he also is flesh: 
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; 
and also after that, 
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, 
and they bare children to them, 
the same became mighty men 
which were of old, men of renown.
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, 
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart 
was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, 
and it grieved Him at His heart.’ 
(Gen 6:1-6)  

* With respect, Retrobyter, I will stand by the verses I have quoted in my previous entries and the testimony that they provide regarding this. For it is the usage which the Holy Spirit makes of the phrase, 'sons of God', that matters; and how the Holy Spirit refers to them retrospectively that determine their meaning, and I have given ample proof of what that is in the verses quoted.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

Shalom, Chris.

Then you should know that absolutely NO place in Scripture uses the term "sons of God" referring to what people call "angels!" Why should Genesis 6 be any different?

Consider the following:

1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope (confidence) in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Hebrews 1:1-14 (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The term "sons of God" is an EXCLUSIVE term for those who are the redeemed of the Lord in the New Testament!

But, should you think that the term can apply to angels in the OT, think again!

In the book of Iyov (commonly called "Job"), one will read these passages:

 

Job 1:6 (KJV)

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

But, we find the same wording in the Hebrew as well as the English in Deuteronomy 31:14.

Deuteronomy 31:14-15 (KJV)

14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. 15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

1 Samuel 10:17-19 (KJV)

17 And Samuel called the people together unto the LORD to Mizpeh; 18 And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you: 19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

It's an activity that we find HUMAN BEINGS doing, not "angels!" It's only ASSUMED that this is an event that happens with "angels in heaven" because "Satan comes in among these "sons of God," but again, the text doesn't say that! This is referring to human beings presenting themselves before the LORD. Where else is Satan going to find a manifestation of God's presence if not at a sacrifice by human beings to God?

Even the Hebrew word often translated as "angel" in the OT, "mal'akh," simply means "messenger," and it was used in Job 1:14 for a HUMAN messenger, not an "angel":

Job 1:14-15 (KJV)

14 And there came a messenger (Hebrew: uwmal'akh) unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: 15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

Now, Genesis 6 talks about these "sons of God" but again, if one investigates their activities, it's clear that they were anything BUT "sons of God!" They were doing evil things! But, recall that we also read this:

Genesis 4:25-26 (KJV)

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

This is NOT the same as "calling on the name of the LORD to be saved." This is treating the LORD'S name as a TALISMAN - a GOOD-LUCK CHARM, attaching it to their own names! I.e., they began calling themselves, "sons of God!" And, why? Because the children of Sheet (pronounced "shate," Seth) and Enowsh (pronounced "eh-noshe'," Enos) were allowed to live openly under the sky, under the God of that sky, while the children of Qayin (Cain) lived in the shadows underground! It was a term of PREJUDICE, a PRIDEFUL term, and had nothing to do with their integrity!

Gotta go for tonight, but I'll cover the passages you noted next time.

[other one]

?

[other one]

considering how large the ark was, I don't think it was built in a weekend...    and I haven't read anywhere that he contracted any of it out to other people.    But then again we have very little information about the daily lives of people prior to the flood that comes from scripture.

[Christine]

1 hour ago, pinacled said:

Hello Christine,

Your inquiry is very perceptive. And Thank You for bringing such an interesting topic to be discussed. I apologize if it is inappropriate to interject. Being new to the forum I've not quite become acquainted with the formalities here.

I simply read your post and was motivated to give a thought. 

If Seth was born at Adams age of 130 ten yrs after the 120yrs that you cited. I wonder if the 120 yr mark was a parralel reference to Cain and his seed. The ones marked for destruction. If the 120yr reference of ,"no longer strive with man" has a relation to judgement in the sense of the Lords resolve of future matters. 

Then the ten yrs after is when Seth is born to carry on the promised lineage to noach of the tenth generation. 

What you may find interesting when regarding the same number in a count of days. Is that there are a few traditianal stories about such.

 

 

Thank you, @pinacled

Your entry is welcome.

However as it is now 12.00pm here in the UK, and I need to put out the light and get a little 'shut eye', I will sleep on what you have said, and come back tomorrow to respond to it (God willing).

* Welcome to the forum.

in Christ Jesus

Chris

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Christine.

You had quoted a few passages of Scripture upon which I was going to comment:

When the morning stars sang together, 
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'
(Job 38:7)

First, one must understand that this is a snippet out of the whole context of Job 38. Let's look at the rest of it:

Job 38:1-11 (KJV)

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

This passage is not a "Creation" passage; it's a "FLOOD" passage! See, when the earth was originally created in Genesis 1 and 2, the earth didn't have clouds as it did after the Flood of Noah's day:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament (expanse) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven." And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here we have God making an expanse - a raqiya` - between the waters below and the waters above. Then, He named the expanse, "shaamaayim," which is a dual word meaning the "skies" (a daytime sky and a nighttime sky). So, the picture is a layer of water below the skies or atmosphere, the atmosphere itself, and a layer of water (probably true water vapor) above the skies or atmosphere.  (This "shaamaayim" is the SAME WORD used in Genesis 1:1, btw.) He continues...

Genesis 1:9-13 (KJV)

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth"; and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas": and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, andherb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

So now, God collected the waters together and made the dry land grow above the surface of the waters. This provided continents and islands upon which living things - grass, herbs, and trees - could grow. Then, we read in Genesis 2,

Genesis 2:4-6 (KJV)

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Now, the physics and fluid dynamics of this scenario suggests that the ground waters below the land were under pressure to form a mist at the hottest time of the day, and the fact that it hadn't rained upon the earth means that, other than this "mist," there were no clouds. Clouds are suspended droplets of condensed water upon dust particles in the atmosphere. However, eventually these suspended droplets will collide and grow all too soon and form drops of water that can no longer be suspended in the atmosphere. They SHALL fall as rain! But, there was no rain; therefore, there couldn't have been clouds. Both of these two facts give rise to the conclusion that, meteorologically speaking, the dew point (seen as the height of the flat underside of cumulus clouds) was much too low to form clouds aloft.

After the first heaven and the first earth were being destroyed in the Flood, we read...

Genesis 7:1-5 (KJV)

1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

Later we read,

Genesis 7:11-12 (KJV)

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

This produced the need for a new balance of natural forces, and then we read YHWH'S words in Job 38 and they take on a whole new meaning. First, God fastens the foundations of the earth so that they would not be easily moved. Second, God "shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb." He put a lid on "the fountains of the great deep that were broken up." Third, He "made the cloud the garment of the waters of the sea, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it," essentially starting the new water cycle. And, fourth, He "set bars and doors, and said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed," establishing the continental shelves.

Thus, Job 38 is not about the Creation but is about the Flood, and the "sons (children) of God" were the eight lives that were spared. (I'm not saying that the "morning stars" could not have been "angels," but it was STILL after the Flood!)

[Christine]

On 9/9/2018 at 2:57 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Christine.

You had quoted a few passages of Scripture upon which I was going to comment:

When the morning stars sang together, 
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'
(Job 38:7)

First, one must understand that this is a snippet out of the whole context of Job 38. Let's look at the rest of it:

Job 38:1-11 (KJV)

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

This passage is not a "Creation" passage; it's a "FLOOD" passage! See, when the earth was originally created in Genesis 1 and 2, the earth didn't have clouds as it did after the Flood of Noah's day:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament (expanse) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven." And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here we have God making an expanse - a raqiya` - between the waters below and the waters above. Then, He named the expanse, "shaamaayim," which is a dual word meaning the "skies" (a daytime sky and a nighttime sky). So, the picture is a layer of water below the skies or atmosphere, the atmosphere itself, and a layer of water (probably true water vapor) above the skies or atmosphere.  (This "shaamaayim" is the SAME WORD used in Genesis 1:1, btw.) He continues...

Genesis 1:9-13 (KJV)

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth"; and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas": and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, andherb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

So now, God collected the waters together and made the dry land grow above the surface of the waters. This provided continents and islands upon which living things - grass, herbs, and trees - could grow. Then, we read in Genesis 2,

Genesis 2:4-6 (KJV)

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Now, the physics and fluid dynamics of this scenario suggests that the ground waters below the land were under pressure to form a mist at the hottest time of the day, and the fact that it hadn't rained upon the earth means that, other than this "mist," there were no clouds. Clouds are suspended droplets of condensed water upon dust particles in the atmosphere. However, eventually these suspended droplets will collide and grow all too soon and form drops of water that can no longer be suspended in the atmosphere. They SHALL fall as rain! But, there was no rain; therefore, there couldn't have been clouds. Both of these two facts give rise to the conclusion that, meteorologically speaking, the dew point (seen as the height of the flat underside of cumulus clouds) was much too low to form clouds aloft.

After the first heaven and the first earth were being destroyed in the Flood, we read...

Genesis 7:1-5 (KJV)

1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

Later we read,

Genesis 7:11-12 (KJV)

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

This produced the need for a new balance of natural forces, and then we read YHWH'S words in Job 38 and they take on a whole new meaning. First, God fastens the foundations of the earth so that they would not be easily moved. Second, God "shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb." He put a lid on "the fountains of the great deep that were broken up." Third, He "made the cloud the garment of the waters of the sea, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it," essentially starting the new water cycle. And, fourth, He "set bars and doors, and said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed," establishing the continental shelves.

Thus, Job 38 is not about the Creation but is about the Flood, and the "sons (children) of God" were the eight lives that were spared. (I'm not saying that the "morning stars" could not have been "angels," but it was STILL after the Flood!)

Hello @Retrobyter,

I must respectfully disagree with your conclusions in regard to Job 38:1-11, given above, and in relation to the identity of the, 'sons of god', referred to by God, to Job, in verse 7. It is clear that the sons of God referred to are angelic beings, and not human beings. Called 'sons' because created by God, as in the case of Adam.

Thank you.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Christine

[Christine]

On 9/8/2018 at 10:15 PM, pinacled said:

Hello Christine,

Your inquiry is very perceptive. And Thank You for bringing such an interesting topic to be discussed. I apologize if it is inappropriate to interject. Being new to the forum I've not quite become acquainted with the formalities here.

I simply read your post and was motivated to give a thought. 

If Seth was born at Adams age of 130 ten yrs after the 120yrs that you cited. I wonder if the 120 yr mark was a parralel reference to Cain and his seed. The ones marked for destruction. If the 120yr reference of ,"no longer strive with man" has a relation to judgement in the sense of the Lords resolve of future matters. 

Then the ten yrs after is when Seth is born to carry on the promised lineage to noach of the tenth generation. 

What you may find interesting when regarding the same number in a count of days. Is that there are a few traditianal stories about such.

 

 

‘And the LORD said, 
“My spirit shall not always strive with man, 
for that he also is flesh: 
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.“’
(Gen 6:3)

Hello @pinacled,

You refer to Gen. 5:3-5, and the fact that Seth was born to Adam and Eve, when Adam was 130 years old.

I think you may have misunderstood me, Pinacled: for the 120 years spoken of by God in Genesis 6:3, I believe, could relate to the years still remaining for Adam at the time that God spoke, though others have a different understanding of it. 

Genesis 5:3-5, tell us that Adam lived eight hundred further years after he had begotten Seth, living in total to nine hundred and thirty.

Genesis 4:26 tell us that in the days of Seth's son, Enos, 'then man began to call on the name of the Lord', but as @Retrobyter has said in a previous post, and with which I agree, that name calling was not one of reverence but of profanity. It was not referring to worship, for Abel worshipped and others undoubtedly, long before. No, they began to call upon (their gods) by the name of 'Jehovah'. This shows the depth of profanity and wickedness that man had falling into, doesn't it? and that God was just in His assessment in Genesis 6:5-7.

* Enos, Seth's son is named at the end of the generations of Cain (Gen. 4:26), because he went in 'the way of Cain' . The reference in Jude in which this term (the way of Cain) is used, makes clear also the nature of the 'sons of God' in Genesis 3, to be that of angel beings.

* I don't understand your reference to Cain and his seed, or why you say they were, 'marked for destruction' I'm afraid, so I cannot comment on that.

Thank you,

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Christine

[Dennis1209]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:39 AM, Jayne said:

Don't give too much thought about the "he" and "his".  In the Bible, Israel and other groups of people are called both he and she.  And God refers to himself as us and our in Genesis.

"Man", "he", and "his" all refer to man as a collective group in this passage.  And a group - such as a nation - can be called he and she.

The 120 years being referred to is the time left before God sends the great flood.

And....look at the whole of the context of chapter six.  Verses 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7,  are speaking of the human race.  Why would verse 3, smack in the middle of that, be talking about Adam, alone?

I agree Jane. It also gives us an accurate idea of how long it took Noah, Shem, Ham and Japheth to build that little dingy. ?

[Christine]

@Michael37  @Willa, @other one,  @Marilyn C

@Jayne,  @Da puppers,  @Retrobyter,  @Dennis1209

@enoob57,  @shiloh357,  @pinacled

* Reading through the thread again, I would like to thank you all for taking part, for your patience and for the kindly manner in which you expressed your thoughts on the subject of Genesis 6:3, and it's context.

With love in Christ Jesus

Chris