Three stages to the body of Christ

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, 1sheep said:

Your mention of rev 12:5 jumped out at me. 

That is speaking of Israel.

Well, the pregnant woman is Israel but the child being born through rapture is the body of Christ. The Greek word harpazo can be found in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. God bless.

[Guest 1sheep]

38 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Well, the pregnant woman is Israel but the child being born through rapture is the body of Christ. The Greek word harpazo can be found in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. God bless.

No. 

5And she gave birth to A SON A MALE CHILD WHO WILL RULE ALL NATIONS WITH AN IRON SCEPTER AND HER CHILD WAS CAUGHT UP TO GOD AND HIS THRONE. 6The woman fled to the wilderness where God prepared a place for her for 1260. 

Scripture is clearly referring to Jesus being born out of Israel.

Since when was the church only male?since when did the church rule with an iron scepter? Anyway you reason it: it is not the church.

 

 Jesus ascended which is why we will do as he has already done but the church is clearly already gone. God doesnt switch up what he calls the church which begins in Acts. The church is not mentioned after rev 3

Israel gave birth to Jesus who ascended to sit at the right hand of the Father.

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, 1sheep said:

No. 

5And she gave birth to A SON A MALE CHILD WHO WILL RULE ALL NATIONS WITH AN IRON SCEPTER AND HER CHILD WAS CAUGHT UP TO GOD AND HIS THRONE. 6The woman fled to the wilderness where God prepared a place for her for 1260. 

Scripture is clearly referring to Jesus being born out of Israel.

Since when was the church only male?since when did the church rule with an iron scepter? Anyway you reason it: it is not the church.

No, Rev 12:1-5 is referring to corporate entities, not singular. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17.

1. The woman - Israel
2. The child - The body of Christ
3. The red dragon - The antichrist system (Rev 13-17)

The church ruling with Christ with an iron scepter is in Rev 2:26-27. The church being male is found here...

Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all sons (huios) of God through faith,

1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons (huios) of light and sons (huios) of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

The Apostle John intentionally made a grammatical error in Revelation 12:5 by modifying masculine huios (son) with neuter arsen.  He is clearly connecting this particular male child with the male child in Isaiah 66, which is a corporate entity.

Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

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 Jesus ascended which is why we will do as he has already done but the church is clearly already gone. God doesnt switch up what he calls the church which begins in Acts. The church is not mentioned after rev 3

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.

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Israel gave birth to Jesus who ascended to sit at the right hand of the Father.

No Rev 12 has nothing to do with events 2000 years ago, the Great Sign only came to pass on 9/23/17. Rev 12:1-5 is referring to the birth of the church. The conception of the church is found in Acts 2:1-4, and the birth is the resurrection and rapture. God bless.

[Guest 1sheep]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, Rev 12:1-5 is referring to corporate entities, not singular. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17.

1. The woman - Israel
2. The child - The body of Christ
3. The red dragon - The antichrist system (Rev 13-17)

The church ruling with Christ with an iron scepter is in Rev 2:26-27. The church being male is found here...

Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all sons (huios) of God through faith,

1 Thess 5:5 for you are all sons (huios) of light and sons (huios) of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

The Apostle John intentionally made a grammatical error in Revelation 12:5 by modifying masculine huios (son) with neuter arsen.  He is clearly connecting this particular male child with the male child in Isaiah 66, which is a corporate entity.

Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.

No Rev 12 has nothing to do with events 2000 years ago, the Great Sign only came to pass on 9/23/17. Rev 12:1-5 is referring to the birth of the church. The conception of the church is found in Acts 2:1-4, and the birth is the resurrection and rapture. God bless.

You can post a whole book but your theory is wrong. It is blatantly obvious . The words mean what they say!! 

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

How can the suddenness be at His Second coming when those in the 70th week can count down the 1260+1260 days on a calender?? The suddenness is the rapture, not His Second Coming. "People were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" is not describing God's wrath in the 70th week, it's describing the Grace period in which we are in now.

If you noticed (apparently you have not) that Jesus coming in power (Rev. 19) is not in chapter 16 where the week ends. He does not come at the end of the week at all. His coming is in chapter 19. The events of chapters 17 & 18 will take place after the week has ended and before He comes. But even at this coming, It will be one second He is not, and the next, He is here, like lightning. 

For His coming pretrib FOR His saints, again it will be sudden. A day just like today, (eating, drinking, etc) when SUDDENLY the dead in Christs fly up out of the ground.  No one will know the day of EITHER coming. 

OF COURSE people will count down, but when they get to the 1260th day and Jesus does not come...what then? They wait in darkness wondering...

[Heb 13:8]

9 hours ago, 1sheep said:

You can post a whole book but your theory is wrong. It is blatantly obvious . The words mean what they say!! 

They do mean what they say, believing that Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17 and that the church was conceived 2000 years ago takes a leap of faith. Tradition isn't always right 1 sheep. God bless.

[Guest 1sheep]

7 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

They do mean what they say, believing that Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17 and that the church was conceived 2000 years ago takes a leap of faith. Tradition isn't always right 1 sheep. God bless.

Proper exegesis of eschatology is not tradition; it is proper exegesis! 

[Heb 13:8]

9 minutes ago, 1sheep said:

Proper exegesis of eschatology is not tradition; it is proper exegesis! 

Then prove it. Where am I in error. Can you show me?

[Guest 1sheep]

8 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Then prove it. Where am I in error. Can you show me?

I already did in my 2nd post

[Heb 13:8]

8 minutes ago, 1sheep said:

I already did in my 2nd post

Ok, so prove me wrong with my post after that.