The Fear of the Lord, The Beginning of Wisdom

[tsth]

Thanks Hazard,

But I was referring to the comment that other one made.

I DO understand the "fear of the Lord", as I am the OP on this thread. I was just curious as to what instruction otherone was referring to above.

I have begun to realize how much of what we believe today is based upon things that sound spiritual and emotional, yet are not based upon the Truth of God's Word. We tend to like things that sound good.

What concerns me is that we have a nation of people who have cast aside the "fear of the Lord" and now we are in the place that we are in because of it...the reverance is gone, and it shows.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Interesting to note the condition of the church in Malachi (the last book of the OT) before the 1st coming of Christ, and what God has to say about it:

Malachi 3:15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.'" 16 Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. 17 "They will be mine," says the Lord Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[other one]

Thanks Hazard,

But I was referring to the comment that other one made.

I DO understand the "fear of the Lord", as I am the OP on this thread. I was just curious as to what instruction otherone was referring to above.

I have begun to realize how much of what we believe today is based upon things that sound spiritual and emotional, yet are not based upon the Truth of God's Word. We tend to like things that sound good.

What concerns me is that we have a nation of people who have cast aside the "fear of the Lord" and now we are in the place that we are in because of it...the reverance is gone, and it shows.

In His Love,

Suzanne

That was a rather incomplete statement on my part. When I wrote it I was placing "wisdom" as seeing and accepting Jesus and the new covenant he makes with those who make him their Lord.

Once you experience that knowledge and love, I don't see fear being part of life.

2 Tim 1:6-7

6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear , but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

NKJV

1 John 4:17-19

Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear , because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

NKJV

Notice that we can be bold in the day of Judgment because he first loved us and we can now love him.

Rev 11:17-18

"We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,

The One who is and who was and who is to come,

Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.

18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,

And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,

And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,

And those who fear Your name, small and great,

And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

NKJV

Rev 19:3-5

"Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!" 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying,"Amen! Alleluia!" 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying,"Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!"

NKJV

Notice in these two pieces of scripture that Those who fear him are separate from His servents and the saints. I take it that the saints need not fear the Lord, for he has made commitments to us that we can trust.

That's why i say that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and once one understands and accepts the Lord, he/she need not fear him for he is true with his word and promises.

Heb 4:14-16

Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

NKJV

That is the scripture that I usually look to concerning fear. There are hundreds of others that tell us to Fear God, but I do not believe that they are meant for those who follow Jesus and are his sheep.

Logic can sometimes get one in trouble, but I just can't see any reason to fear the entity that loves me so much that would send his own son to the cross in my place so that I might be able to be in his presence and worship and give him the praise he deserves.

How can you fear someone like that if you are really His.

For those who do not live and do the commandments of Jesus, they are not in this position and should fear God. There may well be many that think they are saved and safe who confess that Jesus is Lord, but they don't really make him "their Lord" and have falsely convinced themselves and others that they are Christians and are not...... Those, I fear for them.....

I would say for me personally, i did not come to Jesus out of fear....... I just think he is the coolest dude that has ever been and I want so spend eternity with him and those around him. I think tooo many people accept Jesus out of fear as a fire insurance program and that makes living the Christian life style a burden for most.

The old covenant and the ten commandments teaches fear of God.

The new covenant and the two commandments teaches us to Love God, and our neighbors. When you do that your basic nature will not have you breaking any of the old laws, not because you're afraid that "God is going to get you", but because you simply would not do anything pertaining to the ten commandments to someone you love. Be it God or the person next to you, and whether or not you even know that person.

Love the Lord with all your heart and soul, and see what it gets you.

As for as your concerns about the things you see in this country and the world today, I think that you are right about those people should fear the Lord/God. For you can't live a life like that if one belongs to Him, and if one does not belong to him one should surely fear what is coming.

Problem is that too few really believe. And that is considered very lacking in wisdom in my world.

[tsth]

There is a "Book of Remembrance" for a reason....again, in case it was missed:

Malachi 3

15 So now we call the proud blessed, For those who do wickedness are raised up; They even tempt God and go free.' " 16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name. 17 "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him." 18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[other one]

There is a "Book of Remembrance" for a reason....again, in case it was missed:

Malachi 3

15 So now we call the proud blessed, For those who do wickedness are raised up; They even tempt God and go free.' " 16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name. 17 "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him." 18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

This scripture was given to ancient Jews who did not know Jesus, nor had they been given his new commandments, or spiritually reborn so as to know both Jesus and the Father internally as we do today.

If you still really fear God, you need to spend a lot more time with Him. Worship him yes, put him in his high place far above us, yes, bow to him and do his will, yes, but if you know the love of the Father in your spirit, I personally do not understand how you could fear him.

Do I understand what he can do to me..... smash me like a bug....... throw me into the lake of fire...... cast me out into outer darkness...... yes, I understand all those things, but he gave me instructions on how to avoid those things and I can trust him to keep his word....... and as time goes along, the fear of him goes also.

[BlindSeeker]

There is a "Book of Remembrance" for a reason....again, in case it was missed:

Malachi 3

15 So now we call the proud blessed, For those who do wickedness are raised up; They even tempt God and go free.' " 16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name. 17 "They shall be Mine," says the Lord of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him." 18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

This scripture was given to ancient Jews who did not know Jesus, nor had they been given his new commandments, or spiritually reborn so as to know both Jesus and the Father internally as we do today.

If you still really fear God, you need to spend a lot more time with Him. Worship him yes, put him in his high place far above us, yes, bow to him and do his will, yes, but if you know the love of the Father in your spirit, I personally do not understand how you could fear him.

Do I understand what he can do to me..... smash me like a bug....... throw me into the lake of fire...... cast me out into outer darkness...... yes, I understand all those things, but he gave me instructions on how to avoid those things and I can trust him to keep his word....... and as time goes along, the fear of him goes also.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Eph 6:5 Servants,

be obedient

to them that are your masters according to the flesh,

with fear and trembling

, in singleness of your heart,

as unto Christ

;

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He

[

Jesus

]

feared;

Heb 10:30 For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again,

The Lord shall judge His people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Re 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Re 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear Him, both small and great.

Now I know the temptation is to reason away and dismiss all the verses above with this one verse -

1Jo 4:16-18 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

However, we are commanded to love God and to fear Him with our whole hearts. That is because a righteous love (no just some flimsy whimsical emotional one) which is founded upon the truth of God has the same foundation as the fear that causes us to depart from evil, hate sin and is the foundation, or beginning of wisdom whereby we walk in agreement with the Spirit of God. That is that we believe God to be faithful to His word.

Eze 33:10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

Ro 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Both the fear of God and the love of God which leads men in the path of righteousness are two side to the same coin. You cannot have one without another without mishandling the word of God.

[other one]

When you focus on the fear as I see here it makes for a miserable life, whether you fear God or the dark. Maybe I just trust Him more than most.

[traveller]

sam - there are so many today who view God as a magic genie, a buddy that will do things for you quid pro quo, or a romantic lover who comes at your bidding. It is my opinion that this is because the people have forgot the fear of the Lord - that He is God, Lord, Creator of all.

When Paul said this he was expressing the fear of the Lord. Not a fear of being "squashed like a bug," but a fear of failing to walk before Him as he truly wished.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

the fear of the Lord is a sincere desire to walk before Him, to serve Him in righteousness and in truth. In my opinion, it's taking most seriously His commands and His instructions to gain more of an understanding and wisdom in His word. Fear of the Lord does not mean less love, but a desire to serve and to walk before Him in favor. It has nothing to do with lack of trust in Him, or lack of faith. And it does not mean a miserable life, but one full of love and respect toward a God who deserves our reverence and our commitment.

I do not fear what He can do to me - for truly He can separate from me and that would be eternal hell. I fear instead what He has done for me - which is to cover me with righteousness, for that is humbling indeed, and something I cannot take lightly.

Perhaps the difference of opinion here is in semantics?

[tsth]

In His Love,

Suzanne

[humbleseeker]

I look at the fear of God being out of respect for who he is, and how much he loves us. Like a father to a son. I had fear and still do of my earthly father, not a scary fear but one of respect and honor. Those who do not know God have nofear of him because they do not know him. When we know God and honor him, we start abiding in his ways. His ways bring life, a better life on this earth and a eteranl life in heaven. I do not think it is of God in fact I will dare to say it is not of God to fear him in the sence of being scared. God is love and love cast out all fear. Instead of not knowing his love, we know his love and can abide in his love, that Holy fear that we have for our father makes us better people and brings wisdom into our lives.