Daniel 12:2 Who's sleeping in the dust?

[amazingrace]

Animals have breath, and when they die, their breath leaves them, and that is all there is to their life. The Bible makes a clear disctinction between the death of animals and the death of man.

Spirit and soul are used interchangably in the Bible and refer to the eternal part of man that is created in God's image.

Indeed, the soul and spirit are so closely knit that it is only the word of God that can separate them. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoeged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

If one wants to make a distiction between the spirit and the soul, then lets look at the soul. The information appearing in red is taken from "The Three In One CONCISE Bible Referrence Companion"

The soul is that which animates man, the living being, the self.

The soul is made by God: Gen 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

The soul belongs to God: Ezek 18:3; 4 " As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine, the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

The soul possesses immortality: Matt 10:28 "Fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but rather, fear Him who is able to kill both the body and the soul in hell"

The soul is man's vital asset: Matt 16:26 "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"

The soul leaves the body at death: Gen 35:18 "And it came to pass, when her soul was in departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben O Ni, but his father called him Benjamin"

The soul has duties: to keep itself, seek the Lord, love the Lord, serve the Lord, store God's Word, keep God's law, obey God, get wisdom. (referrences on request)

The soul has enemies: fleshly lusts, evil environment, sin, adultery, evil men, ignorance, hell. (referrences on request)

The soul of the righteous is kept by God, vexed by sin, subject to authorities, purified by obedience, not allowed to famish, restored, enriched, satisfied, will reign with Christ. (referrences on request)

The soul of the wicked desires evil , delights in abominations, has nothing, will be required, is to be punished. (referrenced on request)

There is no scripture that indicates that the soul sleeps or becomes dormant or ceases to exist when a person dies. The Scriptures that speak of sleep, use the word 'sleep' as a euphamism for death. It is the body that has died, and actually in a certain way is only sleeping ... since we know that there will be a resurrection of the dead. But the soul has gone on ahead of the body, and is already in its eternal place.... either awaiting judgement for eternal heavenly rewards... or judgement for eternal punishment.

[JesusisGod2]

Hello Caroline,

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen 2:7

Of course we all can agree that God made us from dust in the beginning.

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecc. 12:7

The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies--whether righteous or wicked--returns to God at death.

Amen sis, I am in agreement here. however, it is your next statement that I am not sure I am understanding correctly.

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God's book does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.

Paul tells us that man consist of three parts:

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now as far as the breath of life, nothing exist without God. Now my confusion on your statement is you say that or imply that mans spirit is nothing more than Gods breath of life? I would disagee with this statement.

However, I would agree that the spirit of man is the life in man, in other words this is the living part of man, Givin to us by God Almighty.

James 2:26

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

this is what becomes "born again", we are born in the spirit and we walk in the spirit by the power of Gods Spirit.

now to say that the spirit which you appear to equate with the breath of life returning to God ansd has no feelings etc..:

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God's book does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.

1 Corinthians 15:45

So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

We were a living soul, but when we became born agaian through Christ and His blood and Spirit, we became a living spirit, a born again spirit, though we have yet to be seperated from this body of death.

1 Corinthians 2:11

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

Paul here shows that the spirit of man is living it knows our thoughts just as the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God. The Holy Spirit is very much alive and has feelings and emotions, and we are made in the image of God.

Lets look at at the transfiguration:

Matt 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Here we see Moses and Elijah speaking with the Lord, no9w no one has been resurrected to eternal life this point including Jesus. This shows that the spirit of the two had intelect and communication. so this would conflict with what you have said:

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God's book does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.

Also the marriage supper takes place before the ressurrection, now we are the bride of Christ and we will be there:

6 Then I heard something like the voice of a greatgreat multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.

"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."

8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb '" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."

Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

I hope this helps in your understanding. The seperation of soul and spirit is a very difficult subject to understand, at least for me and I am most definately still learning of it.

Now there are some statements that I tend to somewhat agree with:

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's word teaches that we are souls.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7

Thus, those who die go to their grave and await the resurrection. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20

We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal. The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

I tend to agree that it is the soul that sleeps, for this is what is redeemed and rejoined with thge spirit at the ressurrection, at least from what I understand and I am not dogmatic on this.

Revelation 20 seems to imply this:

4A I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.

John says that he sees the souls of those who have died, beheaded for the testimony of Christ.

4B They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Now I could be misunderstanding this passage of scripture and am definately open to correction on this.

However, 1 Cor seems to agree with this as well:

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

It appears that the soul is ressurected with an imperrishable body, just as we the mortal at the same moment will put on the immortal, we will be changed in the twinkeling of an eye. And it appears that the dead are raised not in the body that was sown in the grown but with an imperrisable body, an immortale body, a glorified body. So I tend to agree that it is the soul that sleeps, but the spirit lives and reunited with the soul that has been redeemed and a new body that has been glorified and immortal.

This is also in line with 1 Thes:

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Now all this appears to happen at the 1st ressurection, after the great tribulation and before Christ millinial reign. Again I am open to others views on the scriptures as I am not real clear on it, but this is my understanding..

God bless

Kevin

[JesusisGod2]

I have no idea why my quotes arent highlited, i have checked and rechecked

[CarolineS]

Kevin,

I am sure we could discuss scripture until the end of time and still not come to an agreement.

I believe scripture supports the doctrine that people die and are asleep/waiting in their grave until Christ returns and the resurrection takes place. Their soul or spirit does not ascend to heaven or another place to await judgement. I believe the spirit or breath of life returns to God, the body returns to the earth, and the soul ceases to exist until the body and spirit are reunited.

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

"There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.

Would we need a resurrection if each of us dies and immediately go to our reward

in heaven? The Lord says, "I am coming and my reward is with me to give to each according to their works."

Do you think Jesus wants to sneak us into heaven one by one when we die? Doesn't it make more sense that he is returning in glory, graves will open, families will be reunited, long lost loved ones will be together again. It will be a glorious celebration for all the righteous. A huge parade, with all the angels to escort us into heaven.

I have heard ministers say at funerals, "Grandma is with the angels, looking down on us right now." Do you really think heaven will be enjoyable if we can look down on our family and see their struggles and suffering?

Our souls are not immortal. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20.

We are given the gift of immortality when Christ returns for us.

Scripture shows that the dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Caroline God Bless you.

I wanted to present this scripture to you.

Joh

[IslandRose]

I have no idea why my quotes arent highlited, i have checked and rechecked  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is because you have too many quotes in your post. It kind of overloads the system.

[JesusisGod2]

I have no idea why my quotes arent highlited, i have checked and rechecked

[amazingrace]

I have no idea why my quotes arent highlited, i have checked and rechecked

[Old Timer]

I guess we all agree that upon death the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Now, can anyone quote me a verse that describes that spirit engaged in any activity?

Is there a verse that says those spirits in heaven are worshiping God, praising God, singing, eating, talking, walking, or doing anything other than resting or sleeping?

Two exceptions, Lazarus and the rich man and Moses & Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration which I know some will want to use but excepting those (which I believe were figures of the future return of Christ) are there any others?

[JesusisGod2]

I guess we all agree that upon death the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Now, can anyone quote me a verse that describes that spirit engaged in any activity?

Is there a verse that says those spirits in heaven are worshiping God, praising God, singing, eating, talking, walking, or doing anything other than resting or sleeping?

Two exceptions, Lazarus and the rich man and Moses & Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration which I know some will want to use but excepting those (which I believe were figures of the future return of Christ) are there any others?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Old Timer,

I'll take a stab at it

Revelation 5:5

Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."

Here we see one of the elders speaking with John the revelator, of course I am assuming that one of the elders was a mortal man at one time.

Revelation 4:10

the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

    11"You are worthy, our Lord and God,

  to receive glory and honor and power,

  for you created all things,

      and by your will they were created

      and have their being."

Here we see the elders worshipping God, and notice that they are wearing crowns, which implies that they have even recieved rewards. This all before the ressurection.

Revelation 5:8

And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

here we see that the elders had harps, which implies that they also played music.

Revelation 5:11

Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.

here we see that the elders are definately not angels, for here we see that the angels are circling the the throne and the creatures and the elders

Revelation 7:13

Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes