That Spirit of Antichrist

[Fisher of Men]

Hi everyone on Worthyboards. I really appreciate this forum. Thanks to those who labour to make it happen here. Glory to God.

I wanted to share this study, however, I realize it is a little long as it also has endnotes. I would prefer to put it on the Study section but I am not qualified to do that, so here it is on the Doctrinal section.

I suggest that those interested, read it through without going to the endnotes at first (about 2 pages on normal A4 size paper) and then if you like, go over it again and look at the endnotes. The endnotes are mostly scriptural quotes and they take up about 3 pages with very loose spacing. Come on everyone, 2 pages really isn

[tsth]

Dear Fisher,

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you. I want to go ahead and beat many to the punch here, as I KNOW the very first disagreement will come in context of people questioning the idea of being "completely" sin-free?

I know that you and I see much the same in terms of the Power of Jesus Christ to set us free from sin. I see distinctions though between the bondage of sinful lifestyles, i.e., drunkenness, fornication, lust, homosexuality, drug dependancy, any lifestyle that we are dependant upon because we feel we are addicted, etc. and then the daily walk of a Christian that might include frustrations, doubtings, inner thoughts of anger, etc. However, I do not consider myself sin-free, in terms of the things above.

I was reminded of this passage as I posted the above.

John 13:10 Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

This seems to me, to be the repentance and washing from the daily walk as a Christian, not the need for a full-blown bathing.

Does this make sense?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[dgolvach]

John 13:10 Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

This seems to me, to be the repentance and washing from the daily walk as a Christian, not the need for a full-blown bathing.

Very interesting passage. Jesus told his disiples that they did not need to be completely washed. Just their feet. I also take this as a daily walk. We do get dirty and do need some areas in our life washed. Could it be that the full blown bathing is salvation? I believe "but not all of you" was refering to Judus. He was not full blown washed. He was not saved. As a matter of fact. I believe Jesus called him a devil.

Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) John 6

God Bless

Dan

[tsth]

John 13:10 Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

This seems to me, to be the repentance and washing from the daily walk as a Christian, not the need for a full-blown bathing.

Very interesting passage. Jesus told his disiples that they did not need to be completely washed. Just their feet. I also take this as a daily walk. We do get dirty and do need some areas in our life washed. Could it be that the full blown bathing is salvation? I believe "but not all of you" was refering to Judus. He was not full blown washed. He was not saved. As a matter of fact. I believe Jesus called him a devil.

Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) John 6

God Bless

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes Dan, I agree with you, in terms of salvation and the washing. It is also reflective in these passages:

Eph. 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

If you look at the entire context of the Ephesians passage, it will take us directly back to what Fisher of Men is posting on:

27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

and the Titus verse speaks of the working Power of God's grace in us thru Christ Jesus.

6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Christ's Free Servant]

Dear Fisher,

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.  I want to go ahead and beat many to the punch here, as I KNOW the very first disagreement will come in context of people questioning the idea of being "completely" sin-free?

I know that you and I see much the same in terms of the Power of Jesus Christ to set us free from sin.  I see distinctions though between the bondage of sinful lifestyles, i.e., drunkenness, fornication, lust, homosexuality, drug dependancy, any lifestyle that we are dependant upon because we feel we are addicted, etc.  and then the daily walk of a Christian that might include frustrations, doubtings, inner thoughts of anger, etc.  However, I do not consider myself sin-free, in terms of the things above. 

I was reminded of this passage as I posted the above.

John 13:10 Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

This seems to me, to be the repentance and washing from the daily walk as a Christian, not the need for a full-blown bathing.

Does this make sense?

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Suzanne!

It makes perfect sense to me and I agree wholeheartedly!! We are never totally sin-free until we get to heaven, but Christ came to set us free from "bondage" to sin or living sinful lifestyles. Remember the lady I told you about who thought repentance was not necessary for salvation and she also did not believe repentance meant turning from sin? I think that is where her confusion comes in. I think she sees "turning from sin" as "sin-free," and since none of us can be "sin-free" here on the earth, she assumes that "repentance" must not mean "turning from our sin."

[Fiosh]

This might be a little off-topic, and if this is not the appropriate place to discuss it please just tell me so.

Did you ever have the experience where a "plain and simple" truth that you've always accepted suddenly shows itself to you from a different angle. And you smack your forehead and say, "Why did I never see it that way before" ?

Well a while ago I was thinking about the bodily ascension of Jesus into heaven.

And, it suddenly occured to me....Jesus rose BODILY into heaven.

Yes, it was a glorified body; but it was a flesh and blood body.

So, does that mean that Jesus exists somewhere in the universe "bodily" not only in spirit?????

For some reason that is an awesome thought to me.

I'm honestly not sure of the Biblical teaching on this.

Any thoughts?

Peace,

Fiosh

[eric]

Fiosh,

Well a while ago I was thinking about the bodily ascension of Jesus into heaven.

And, it suddenly occured to me....Jesus rose BODILY into heaven.

Yes, it was a glorified body; but it was a flesh and blood body.

the way I understand it, that although Jesus rose bodily He was flesh and bone as His blood had been shed on the cross and I'm sure somewhere the bible states there will be no blood in heaven, but I stand to be corrected.

eric.

[tsth]

I am very interested to hear Fisher of Men's responses. I truly want to hear what he has to say, and I am hopeful that this thread will "remain" one of peaceful dialogue.

Dear Sue, I just don't get how the lady could dismiss "repentance"? When Jesus Himself spoke it? If it was part of HIS gospel HE preached, then how could we not?

Fiosh, the problem I see with it is that it doesn't jibe with the picture of Christ and His return spoken of in the Bible? There is no mention in Scriptures that I'm aware of that would indicate He's just walking around somewhere?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Christ's Free Servant]

This might be a little off-topic, and if this is not the appropriate place to discuss it please just tell me so.

Did you ever have the experience where a "plain and simple" truth that you've always accepted suddenly shows itself to you from a different angle. And you smack your forehead and say, "Why did I never see it that way before" ?

Peace,

Fiosh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That happens to me all the time. I think it's neat!! I love to discover new truths - they are like jewels. I enjoy seeing things from a different perspective than I had ever looked at it before. Talking with people on here is helping a lot with that, too, because I learn from you all. I don't mind you getting off topic, but then I am not the one who began this thread. I'm just going along for the ride.

[Fisher of Men]

What a blessing it is to not be continually attacked and slandered by the osas folks. I thank God for a forum where truth is respected. My prayer is that they would never be allowed to overrun this forum as other forums.

Concerning sin lifestyles and the day to day relatively minor sins:

2 references from Scripture come to mind:

1 Tim. 1:

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Php. 3:

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

When we hear the Gospel call and our hearts race with hope of forgiveness, the chance to escape from Hell and the joy of of eternity, we gladly accept the requirement to repent. This all relates to the good conscience aspect. God wants us to have a good conscience. He came to give us that. Genuinely, not pretended and not a seared conscience claiming to be right when our own conscience should be screaming out and not letting us sleep because of sin in our lives.

So we call on him through repentance and obedience to be baptised and giving place in our lives to his Word.

Those who have experienced the genuine conversion experience and receiving the Holy Spirit find themselves delivered from past sinful lifestyles. They have repented from and have found deliverance from those lifestyles. They experience a good conscience before God and the release of past sins that had weighed so heavily on their conscience.

From that point, as God brings to their attention other things to forsake and to the relatively minor things in their lives, thoughts, attitudes etc., they respond to attend to those things and so retain the blessing of having a good conscience before God. And this is where we can apply the above reference in Php. 3. We have left our old lifestyles and are not looking back but forward with a willingness to attend to more truth as he brings it to our attention. Remember we are servants attending continually to the bidding of our Master. And that is where we should find joy.

"This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not grievous".

Those who have not experienced the power and joy of the Holy Spirit, who is given to them that obey Him, may find it difficult to appreciate the connection between serving Him and the resultant deep joy. A good conscience which accompanies serving him is very much a part of that great joy.

Our walk with the Lord is a daily battle as we war against powers of darkness. The battle is on the most part in our minds as Satan continually tries to get us to sin through our thoughts. If he wins a battle now and again, that doesn't mean he's won the war. But let's be honest, he didn't have to win anything:

1 Cor 10:

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Heb. 4:

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

We are not supposed to be falling into sin when being tempted. We are supposed to be taking the suffering of being tempted as an opportunity of showing our love to Jesus by enduring that temptation and not yielding to it and committing sin.

James 1:

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

So what does it mean when we find ourselves falling into sin?

It means we are not in the faith as we ought to be and we need to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. It means we allowed Satan to take a victory which was completely avoidable. That victory is proof that we were not abiding in Him but allowed Satan to get his way at that time. But it didn't have to happen.

It also means that we may find ourselves adopting doctrine (such as the famous line: "well, nobody's perfect") that makes it easier to continue in some sins.

Paul warned us of our hearts being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. (Heb. 3)

Sin can lead to deception and it very often does. Any sin, however relatively minor, is a victory for Satan. It also results in losing having a good conscience.

But if we are defeated by Satan through the flesh by a sin, we need to confess to God and repent of it and get back in the state of having a genuinely good conscience with God.

Any sin we commit as Christians is cause for us to be very ashamed. There is no excuse because of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The bottom line is that we will be judged according to our works.

Who did we yield to?

What did we do?

Where will we go?

John 5:28,29

You know the old saying, "If you died tonight, do you know if you would go to heaven?"

Many professing Christians would quickly answer yes to this.

But many of these same people, if honest, would answer no to a question determining whether or not they have a genuinely good conscience before God.

It doesn't work like that.

So when being confronted with the question about if you died tonight, you could respond by asking them to clarify what they mean by that question.

You can ask: Do you mean to ask: "Do you have a genuinely good conscience before God because through Christ your past sins have been forgiven and your behaviour has changed?"

If that is not what they mean by their question, since that is the only way a person is going to get to heaven, then most likely they are denying the power of godliness and may therefore fall into the category of those who will not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Fisher of Men