Still Alive Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 13 hours ago, other one said: there is more than just musical instruments tied up in their thinking..... in the church service they don't do anything that they don't find in the New Testament.... they don't see musical instruments so none in their church... they do have logical reasoning, even though I don't really agree with it. There are no Chevy's in the NT, so I take it none of them drive Chevy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWH2003 Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 54 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Still Alive said: There are no Chevy's in the NT, so I take it none of them drive Chevy's. While humorous, I think you may not see what the reasoning is behind their conduct. The reasoning is that there is a distinction between what is authorized in worship versus what is allowed in common or personal use. For example, 1 Corinthians 11 teaches about the Lord's Supper (an act of worship). Paul pointedly says in verse 34 that if any man is hungry, eat at home, that your coming together (for worship, the Lord's supper) be not unto condemnation. He thus makes a distinction between worship behaviors & common behaviors. The only physical food identified in the NT worship is described as a memorial of Christ's body & blood (unleavened bread & fruit of the vine 1 Cor. 11; Matt. 26:26-29; etc) and not for a common meal - to satisfy hunger. In like manner, singing is overtly commanded in Ephesians 5:19 and taught in other passages as part of the NT worship. There are no NT passages showing musical instruments being used in worship in the church. Thus, we know without any doubt that singing is approved by God, but musical instruments... delves into unauthorized / unapproved actions in worship. This is not to say that it is wrong to use musical instruments for personal enjoyment, but in worship the aim is to please God, not self. Jesus plainly taught that acceptable worship involves not just the heart (our sincerity), but also truth (God's word as the standard) (John 4:24). To go beyond what God says is to invent a man made way, rather than to show faith in God. Edited August 28, 2018 by DWH2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, DWH2003 said: While humorous, I think you may not see what the reasoning is behind their conduct. The reasoning is that there is a distinction between what is authorized in worship versus what is allowed in common or personal use. For example, 1 Corinthians 11 teaches about the Lord's Supper (an act of worship). Paul pointedly says in verse 34 that if any man is hungry, eat at home, that your coming together (for worship, the Lord's supper) be not unto condemnation. He thus makes a distinction between worship behaviors & common behaviors. The only physical food identified in in the NT worship is to be used as a memorial of Christ's body & blood (unleavened bread & fruit of the vine 1 Cor. 11; Matt. 26:26-29; etc). Not for a common meal - to satisfy hunger. In like manner, singing is overtly commanded in Ephesians 5:19 and taught in other passages as part of the NT worship. There are no NT passages showing musical instruments being used in worship in the church. Thus, it is not wrong to use musical instruments for personal enjoyment, but in worship the aim is to please God, not self. Acceptable worship involves not just the heart (our sincerity), but also truth (God's word as the standard) (John 4:24). To go beyond what God says is to invent a man made way, rather than to show faith in God. I understand, but for their to be a parallel, the part about singing would have to also say "leave your instruments at home". It doesn't. That is an issue I have with all beliefs that are based on what the bible "doesn't say" rather than what it says. The point you make about communion is based on what the bible says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWH2003 Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 54 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Still Alive said: I understand, but for their to be a parallel, the part about singing would have to also say "leave your instruments at home". It doesn't. That is an issue I have with all beliefs that are based on what the bible "doesn't say" rather than what it says. The point you make about communion is based on what the bible says. God uses principles. And expects us to reason from those principles. Also, God teaches us that His silence is not permission (Heb. 7:14). We cannot assume approval without Him expressing approval. Your point effectively says: "God didn't say not to use instruments, therefore instruments are ok to use in worship." IF your principle is valid, then why not: God doesn't say not to smoke marijuana... God doesn't say not to have multiple wives... God doesn't say not to (fill in the blank with whatever!)... Please consider, who are we supposed to please? Self or God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DWH2003 said: God uses principles. And expects us to reason from those principles. Also, God teaches us that His silence is not permission (Heb. 7:14). We cannot assume approval without Him expressing approval. Your point effectively says: "God didn't say not to use instruments, therefore instruments are ok to use in worship." IF your principle is valid, then why not: God doesn't say not to smoke marijuana... God doesn't say not to have multiple wives... God doesn't say not to (fill in the blank with whatever!)... Please consider, who are we supposed to please? Self or God? Like God, in this case I'm using principles. e.g. I don't equate playing instruments in church worship to smoking dope or having multiple wives. As one reads the bible and prays, one knows the personality of God more. That knowledge can be used to affect ones actions and pursuits in all sorts of ways. Edited August 28, 2018 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,229 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,954 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Still Alive said: There are no Chevy's in the NT, so I take it none of them drive Chevy's. only part of the reasons I don't agree with it. but alas I don't really mean to badmouth the church of many friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, other one said: only part of the reasons I don't agree with it. but alas I don't really mean to badmouth the church of many friends. There isn't a church on the planet I completely agree with. I just find the one I agree with the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,229 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,954 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, Still Alive said: There isn't a church on the planet I completely agree with. I just find the one I agree with the most. We picked the one that the people seemed to love and take care of each other the most..... and their doctrine is mainly OK. We attend but are not members, and they treat us just like members except for voting on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.32 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, other one said: We picked the one that the people seemed to love and take care of each other the most..... and their doctrine is mainly OK. We attend but are not members, and they treat us just like members except for voting on things. Same here. We saw closeness in some of the other smaller churches here, but they were mostly the same family, and if you were not in that extended family, you were still there and involved, but there was just a little bit of a "not quite one of us" feeling. It's not why we left, though. It was a doctrine thing. We didn't agree about hell and they were quite dogmatic about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted August 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,824 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,813 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, DWH2003 said: God uses principles. And expects us to reason from those principles. Also, God teaches us that His silence is not permission (Heb. 7:14). We cannot assume approval without Him expressing approval. Your point effectively says: "God didn't say not to use instruments, therefore instruments are ok to use in worship." IF your principle is valid, then why not: God doesn't say not to smoke marijuana... God doesn't say not to have multiple wives... God doesn't say not to (fill in the blank with whatever!)... Please consider, who are we supposed to please? Self or God? Hebrews 7:14 is not about what God permits or doesn't permit - his silence or spoken word. It's about detaching Jesus, the "P"riest from the "p"riesthood of Aaron's line. The author is saying there is no connection because Jesus is from the lineage of Judah, not Aaron. And Moses directed the priests to come from Aaron's line. Marijuana is not cited in the Bible, but we know it's wrong because God directly teaches that intoxication is sin. There is no smoking weed in moderation. Ergo, huffing any substance that intoxicates is sinful. Actually God did say not to have multiple wives. Deuteronomy 17:17. This was a direction for the kings. If it's good enough for kings, it should be wise enough for all men. Why do you think that instruments are about pleasing the "self"? I know you don't put stock in the Old Testament uses of instruments for praise and worship, but God instructed it in Psalms 150. Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! I'm not trying to change your mind. I just don't understand the playing of instruments as having no connection whatsoever with praise and worship when the Bible is clear that it does. And I don't understand the playing of instruments as pleasing the self and not God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts