A blessed life (pastor Robert Morris)

[Guest Desperately_seeking_Abba]

Hello Brothers and Sisters! May the Peace of the Lord Be Always With You! ?

My ? Is:

I am currently in a study group for the Blessed life with Pastor Robert Morris.  

Must one ONLY tithe their tenth to the Church?

I give my tithe to charities, like those that help local children with school needs and those that help abandoned and abused children and animals. 

In the OT (Malachi 3:10) the law states all tithes be given to God's house (the Church).

Then Jesus came along. Jesus showed charity to all, even those the Church would have cast aside like the prostitutes, the adulteress, those possessed by demons - even the dead. 

And while I am most happy to give my tenth to God's house, Jesus made Gods house wherever a believer practices charity and love.

Would Jesus accept my offering based on my hearts desire to see to the needs of the truly meek?

Pastor Morris believes that unless the church receives it, the tithe is outside of the law and therefore, inadmissible. 

Thoughts? 

 

 

[GandalfTheWise]

Some Christians are convinced that the OT tithe (10% of income) is renewed as a NT command of God to Christians and that 10% is to be given to the church.  They then debate such details as 10% of net or gross income, does the church mean local church only or other ministries, etc.  They quote various verses from the OT as well as a few in the NT to prove this.

Other Christians are convinced that the tithe is OT Law only and not binding on Christians.  They note that the NT verses which mention the tithe are in the context of the OT law only and not in an context dealing with non-Jewish Christians.  Christians are then to give as God puts on their hearts.

I used to be a firm believer in tithing 10%.   However, my view is now that we are meant to be God's steward of 100% of our finances.  The main principle of this is having freedom and liberty in our financial lives so that we are free to bless others as God puts it on our hearts and are not under bondage financially in our lives.  This means avoiding debt, living simply and frugally well within our means, being wise with our time and resources, doing good financial planning, and following God's direction with serious life decisions.   My view now is that we should live in such a way that our financial lives glorify God in their integrity, common sense, and example that they set.  We live wisely so that we increase our freedom and liberty to live our lives pleasing to God as well as having more opportunity to give.  This does not mean trials and problems don't come, but that they should be real trials and problems, not self-inflicted debts and bondage.  Rather than viewing our financial obligation to God as writing a check for 10% each time we receive money, we follow God's guidance and direction each and every time we spend and receive money.  I used to see God's financial blessing as being dependent on how accurately I put in a 10% check each week and in essence more from the standpoint of punishment and reward.  I once had a pastor (who believed in tithing) comment that 10% is God's, we can either give it voluntarily or He'll take it Himself.  I used to see giving and tithing in that light.   I now see God's financial blessing as being a part of His blessings on a complete Christian lifestyle of which sound financial stewardship is but one part.

Edit[Added following paragraph for more clarity.]

I think each Christian needs to do in their heart what they are convinced God wants them to do.  If one Christian is convinced that giving 10% is what God wants them to do, they should.  If another Christian is convinced that their giving should be toward the local church, they should.  If another Christian is convinced that their giving should be where God leads them to give, they should.  The important thing is that we are growing spiritually, being good stewards, and following God's direction in our financial lives.

Edited September 2, 2018 by GandalfTheWise

[Willa]

God's word tells us to support our pastors, and that the pastors who teach and preach the Gospel should receive a double portion.  

However, I would look also at how the pastor lives.  Does he have very expensive houses and cars, and dress in thousands of  dollar name brand suits?   Or does he dress and live modestly?  Is the church building extravagant?  Or are they using the money coming in prudently.  Does the church help our poor churches and missions?  

Some pastors are using the gospel as a means of getting rich, which is forbidden in Scripture.  

I turn to the New Testament and look to what is said there about giving.  We are not under the Old Testament Law concerning tithing, but the principle of giving is an ongoing truth.  

2Co 9:7  Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 2Co 9:8  And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 2Co 9:9  As it is written, "He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."

 Jas 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, 

1Ti 5:17  AMP Let the elders who perform the duties of their office well be considered doubly worthy of honor [and of adequate financial support], especially those who labor faithfully in preaching and teaching. 1Ti 5:18  For the Scripture says, You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain, and again, The laborer is worthy of his hire. [Deu 25:4; Luk 10:7]

I am an animal lover, but giving toward animals is not a directive of Scripture.  It should be a gift over and above giving to your local church and giving to the poor.  I would personally say that the latter could be combined to be a part of your tithe.  But let the Holy Spirit guide your giving.  

Gal 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.  Gal 2:10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

 1Ti 6:5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.  1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain,  1Ti 6:7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 1Ti 6:8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.  1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.  1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Cletus said:

I would like to clear something up for you.

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

If you look up this word storehouse in the Hebrew, as in Malachi and as in the new testament in greek you will find that they mean the same thing... and it aint a church, it int a synogogue.  It is a place to store victuals... food clothes needs, etc.  and these things areto be brought in and GIVEN to the poor.  I have spent years of my life working in one of these storehouses.  I have heard so many preachers preach on this passage and when they get to storehouse the pause and say... this is the storehouse people... bring your tithes in to this church... the storehouse is the sanctuary, I have even heard bring in your tithes so there will be meat in the storehouse, and we dont want a diet of milk now do we...  

the only passage in the new testament i can find that uses the word storehouse is this:

Luk 12:24  Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
Luk 12:25  And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luk 12:26  If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
Luk 12:27  Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Luk 12:28  If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Luk 12:29  And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
Luk 12:30  For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
Luk 12:31  But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

The teaching of the storehouse being the church is false, and its been told for a nice payday.  You give yours where God Puts it on your heart to Give and dont worry about the rest.  To obey is better than sacrifice.  

Onward brother Cletus .    Onward in the LORD .   we sure don't want that chocolate milk most have been selling .  

AND EXACTLY ,   Give these things no thought .     You can tell when a person TRUSTS JESUS .    WHEN they BELIEVE HIM .

NOW ,  throw those hands up Cletus and praise the LORD .    We going to feast from the table OF OUR LORDS WORDS .   

[Neighbor]

Hi, would I give only a 10% tip to a restaurant waitress, justifying that miserly tip with the idea that hey I gave some money to the local SPCA and some to The Jimmy Fund, and  oh yes that Fundme plea for the kid that got hurt back in June?

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Give to God what Is God's. Do not use one to justify skipping the other.

To tithe is merely to give a tenth, usually a tenth of something new, new money earned new crops harvested a tenth of new value, but tithing was not limited to  one tithe a month. There were multiple tithes, they added up to some 23 and 1/3 % a year averaged over a three year period. Those that tithed also had Jubilee years and 50 year cycles of ownerhip  of valuables as a concept of life's responsibilities.

The point being  giving and paying exceeded far more than a 10% total for obligations and privileges.

Christians still have responsibilities to government, to charity, as well as the privilege and duty of giving as worship to and of God.

Where does one give to God? Is it to the SPCA? or is it generally to a local body of Christ Jesus? For me it must be at a local body of Christ first, and for the elder to prayerfully consider how it is utilized. I do not care how much my pastors earn- that is not my business. I do pray that for the excellent teaching they  receive an abundance of cash for their own family. I do not judge  them on their attire nor their car. I appreciate them for their teaching and pastoring. 

God loves a cheerful giver.

Is calculating how not to exceed  10%, a cheerful giving at all?

Edited September 4, 2018 by Neighbor