JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: There certainly is a standard. Perfection. I cannot be perfect and rely on the payment for not meeting this standard. Those who say salvation can be lost are not only calling Jesus untrue "who ever trusts in me shall never perish" but are focused on the work of people above the cross. No one I've ever met who believes salvation can be lost can answer this question, "what must I do to be saved," yet the answer is in Acts, "trust Christ." And yet if salvation can't be lost, what incentive is there to even try to live a sinless life? Is sinning every day really the best God can do for us? 1 minute ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: If you are living a life of sinless perfection, let me ask how you are doing with those pesky sins of omission that your type always refuses to address. How much of your idle time this past week did you spend working in hospitals and food kitchens, doing volunteer work to help those less fortunate than you? So where does the Bible say by not doing these things it's counted as sin? I think the Bible clearly spells out what sin is and I don't remember refusing to volunteer as being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 James4:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 50 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: I've said repeatedly that my own efforts will not get me saved. I might argue that repentance is necessary but I will concede that point if it helps and say that it's by trust in Christ only. I don't have a problem with this. But this only gets a person saved. You still have to please God and live up to his standards once you are saved. God has a standard to live up to. Can I live up to that standard without his power helping me to do it? Absolutely not. That's why we all need Jesus. Not just to get us saved but to live his life through us. If you say God has no standard to live up to then you go against 1 John 3:9. I think the problem is you believe salvation cannot be lost and so there's no reason to worry about sin. I believe salvation can be lost and so there's a lot of reason to worry about it. If you believe you can lose your salvation you are in danger of doing just that. All of those that think salvation can be lost think that way because they are depending to some degree that their performance, which of course is fallable, is what saves them or keeps them saved.They do not fully trust in the Blood Of Christ alone to save them....they gotta add their pitiful attempts at perfection to make sure they are covered.It is an insult to the Sacrifice that Christ alone gave to Mankind.God frowns on that.Big time.Grace is what saves you and works cancels grace.Be careful what you do with God’s Grace.It May mean more than you ever imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: And yet if salvation can't be lost, what incentive is there to even try to live a sinless life? Is sinning every day really the best God can do for us? So where does the Bible say by not doing these things it's counted as sin? I think the Bible clearly spells out what sin is and I don't remember refusing to volunteer as being one of them. The incentive for believers is not fear of hellfire, but the gratitude due such a wonderful gift. Jesus said His followers/servants were to become His friends (at the Last Supper). You currently have eternal insecurity. You are saying the clear standard is perfection, when there are dozens of NT passages explaining, clearly, that this standard will be met in the next world. **Where does the Bible spell out what sin is? In the Greek, it means IMPERFECTION. Like missing a bulls eye each time you aim for it. Refusing to volunteer if the Spirit told you to volunteer IS sin, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: It is an insult to the Sacrifice that Christ alone gave to Mankind. Actually, I think it's an insult to Christ to not live free from sin. He died a horrible death to redeem us. The least we can do is live a holy life for him. Edited September 25, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.30 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2018 20 hours ago, JohnKing67 said: You're right, Peter did sin. But I don't believe we hear about him sinning again after going to the upper room and receiving the Holy Spirit. If anything I think Peter's sin teaches that it's possible to backslide into sin after being saved and then return again to forgiveness. Which would go against the belief of "once saved always saved". Peter struggled with sin just like everyone else. Long after he received the Holy Spirit, he sinned. When Paul went to Jerusalem to introduce himself to Peter and to tell him of all the Gentiles that were being saved and how some were teaching that Gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved, Peter [and James/John] were glad to meet him. Peter agreed that requiring circumcision to be saved was wrong and he would eat with Gentiles [a big no-no for orthodox Jews and even Judaizers, saved Jews who thought you had to become a Jew first before being a Christian]. But when Peter came to see Paul in Antioch, there were some Judaizers there and the Bible says that Peter "was afraid" of them - so he began to scorn and treat Gentile Christians as "unclean". He would not fellowship with them. That was a sin - fear of false teachers and treating brothers and sisters in Christ as if they were a scourge. Hypocrisy....prejudice. Sin. The Bible says that Paul confronted him publicly as opposed to privately like the first time. Backsliding is not losing salvation. It's in the Old Testament, in Jeremiah, I was just literally reading this morning. God calls his nation backsliders and is going to punish them greatly and for a long time but twice that I read this morning God said he would not destroy the nation completely and that he would cure them of backsliding. Israel was still God's nation before the backsliding, during the punishment, and after the backsliding. In Hosea, God says, "I will heal their backsliding." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: James4:17 Point taken. Although it's hard to know exactly what "good" means in this context. Edited September 25, 2018 by JohnKing67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sheep Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: Actually, I think it's in insult to Christ to not live free from sin. He died a horrible death to redeemed us. The least we can do is live a holy life for him. Hi Johnking. You are NOT CAPABLE of living a holy life. God is the only one that is truly holy. We are righteous through Christ imputed grace. Trust me , no man is living anywhere close free from sin. In the very least a very mature christian deals with wrong thoughts that are full of things that is sinning! Yes, we strive for that but it is not ever obtained this side of being glorified in Christ. We are to keep working out our salvation and to not be thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnKing67 Posted September 25, 2018 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/09/1967 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 1 minute ago, 1sheep said: Hi Johnking. You are NOT CAPABLE of living a holy life. God is the only one that is truly holy. We are righteous through Christ imputed grace. Trust me , no man is living anywhere close free from sin. In the very least a very mature christian deals with wrong thoughts that are full of things that is sinning! Yes, we strive for that but it is not ever obtained this side of being glorified in Christ. We are to keep working out our salvation and to not be thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought. Really? And you know for a fact how everyone is living? I certainly can't claim to know this. If what you say is true then Jesus told us to do the impossible when he said to be as perfect as our heavenly father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sheep Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnKing67 said: Really? And you know for a fact how everyone is living? I certainly can't claim to know this. If what you say is true then Jesus told us to do the impossible when he said to be as perfect as our heavenly father. When you understand the meaning of resting in Christ or buried in Christ you will understand that it is because of Christs imputed grace that he says to live perfectly. God sees Christ atonement on the personhood of those who are reborn again. That is the whole point!! We cant live perfectly and thats why God provided a perfect lamb as the payment for sin. We put on Christs righteousness when we are truly reborn again in Christ. We do strive to obey because we are so grateful to be saved. Im afraid if you keep striving to be perfect or holy ; you will end up a self righteous jerk. If you are Gods child, God will then chasten you and reteach you to get you to realize all your working towards perfection turned into works! Just rest in Christ . Dont willfully sin. Immerse yourself in holy scriptures. Walk in the faith of a child. God is faithful to get you to the finish line. God is the author and finisher of our faith. Rest in Christ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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