Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, PinkBelt said: Jesus gave a different answer to this exact same question in the bible: Matt. 19:16-22, “And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieved; for he was one who owned much property.” That was a test. Jesus was not attaching works to salvation. He was exposing the man's real problem namely that his possessions possessed him. We are not saved by keeping commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PinkBelt Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: That was a test. Jesus was not attaching works to salvation. He was exposing the man's real problem namely that his possessions possessed him. We are not saved by keeping commandments. Oh, so Jesus was giving a dishonest answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, PinkBelt said: Oh, so Jesus was giving a dishonest answer? No, he wasn't. He was showing the man that he was not sincere in wanting eternal life. Jesus was not making a theological treatise on salvation. He was exposing the man's real hinderance to eternal life. He loved his possessions more than he loved God and would not follow God if it meant giving up his wealth. Secondly, the Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28, Eph. 2: 8-9). Salvation is Jesus + 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PinkBelt Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, he wasn't. He was showing the man that he was not sincere in wanting eternal life. Jesus was not making a theological treatise on salvation. He was exposing the man's real hinderance to eternal life. He loved his possessions more than he loved God and would not follow God if it meant giving up his wealth. Secondly, the Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28, Eph. 2: 8-9). Salvation is Jesus + 0. You just said the answer Jesus gave was not the correct one, ergo he gave a dishonest answer. The motives for being dishonest are irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, PinkBelt said: You just said the answer Jesus gave was not the correct one, ergo he gave a dishonest answer. The motives for being dishonest are irrelevant. it was the correct one for that man at that particular time period..... not us today . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, PinkBelt said: You just said the answer Jesus gave was not the correct one, ergo he gave a dishonest answer. The motives for being dishonest are irrelevant. No, I didn't say that the answer Jesus gave was the incorrect one. Jesus was exposing the one things that would keep the man from having eternal life. He was willing to keep the 10 commandments because they didn't cost him anything. Jesus was demonstrating to the man that he was not really interested in eternal life. It really is that simple. This was not a theological discussion on what it takes to be saved. Rather, the man had to be confronted about HIS dishonest motives and insincerity. He would not follow Christ if it cost him anything and that is what Jesus was revealing in that exchange. Jesus was not attaching works to salvation. The problem with the social justice "gospel" is that it works-based. Christianity is not defined by the Bible, but is defined in terms of doing good works. The Bible, as a whole teaches that salvation is not based on what we do, but upon what Christ has done for on the cross. Eternal life isn't a "thing." Eternal life is a Person, the Person of Jesus Christ; He is salvation. We don't find salvation in Christ by what we do, but solely by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. He is our salvation, not our good deeds, not humanitarianism or any effort on our part. There are many whose riches are actually an impediment to coming to Jesus, and this man was no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: It wasn't just a test, Jesus expected those who heard His teachings at that time to follow His instructions and the early believers did in fact give up their possessions and wealth. Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Matthew 19:21) All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they shared with anyone who was in need. (Acts 2:44-45) All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. (Acts 4:32-35) They gave OF their possessions and wealth, but those passages do not say that they gave up everything like Jesus instructed the rich young ruler. They did not impoverish themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Badjao33 said: Why would you think that way when Jesus clearly taught to give up everything including all possessions to follow Him? Jesus wasn't teaching. He was revealing to that man his true hindrance to eternal life. That was not a theological teaching or a doctrine. And the Bible doesn't say that the early Christians impoverished themselves. You are trying to link two unrelated events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, Badjao33 said: If Jesus and the original disciples weren't teaching that believers had to give up all of their possessions, why did Ananias try to conceal some of the money he had received from selling his land? A man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” (Acts 5:1-4) Ananias and Sapphira didn't sell all of what they had. They sold a piece of property. People can own property other than their primary residence, you know. It doesn't say they sold everything they had. Nor does the text of Acts tell us that the early believers sold all they owned. That wouldn't even make sense. Jesus wasn't teaching anyone that they had to give up every possession to follow him and the disciples were not teaching that. There is no such teaching anywhere in the Bible. God does not make poverty a condition for following Him. The point Jesus was making is that this rich man for all of his supposed righteous living loved his wealth and the prestige that came with it, more than he really wanted eternal life. He could not follow Jesus if it really meant losing his wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: None of the earlier believers were lacking and they certainly weren't impoverished. "For there was not a needy person among them," (Acts 4:34) I know. Which means they were not being taught to sell all they owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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