Michael37 Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,971 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,889 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Figure of eighty said: Nope. My question is what I wrote. It's just about the lack of choice when we're supposed to have free will. It seems we only have free will to the extent God allows since He's sovereign. "Lack of choice when we are supposed to have freewill". So when are we "supposed" to have freewill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 53 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Excuse me F of E if I find you rather obtuse in your reasoning but the fact that God always knows all that is knowable doesn't mean that people pre-exist their temporal existence in the way Jesus did before His incarnation. Sure God always knows our past, present, and future, and has communicated the relevant details to us. He always has us on His mind so to speak. If we are to be the elect of God after we are born, this is foreknown of God in the sense that in eternity outside this temporal, finite dimension we are united with Him in deep, intimate, spiritual fellowship. Those who are hardened to God and reject His goodness in making redemption available to all are told to depart from Him because He never knew them in the sense of this deep, intimate, spiritual fellowship. Mat 7:21-27 (21) Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (24) Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (25) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (26) And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: (27) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. So did God create us or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Michael37 said: "Lack of choice when we are supposed to have freewill". So when are we "supposed" to have freewill? I don't know. I'm not God. Since God does intervene on our free will from time to time ...my OP being one example as well as some examples in the Bible. It just seems like we have free will to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,971 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,889 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Figure of eighty said: So did God create us or not? I'm a Bible believer. This verse is from the Bible. I'm descended from Adam and Eve who were fruitful and multiplied after God created them. If God had not created them thus I would not exist. It's the same for everyone. What's your problem, F of E? Gen 1:27-28 (27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure of eighty Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 242 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,562 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 877 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 56 minutes ago, TechEnthusiast said: I think when we talk about he fact that God can do what he wants that we should acknowledge something very important. God is good so so good. I suppose it really depends on how you define good. I think that God is the creator of all good things and though He does do things that cause pain, He has a very very good reason for it. God created laughter, fun, and feasts. He created friendship, and love. He is not an arbitrary tyrant who does as He pleases on some random whim. He is a Benevolent wise and good King who does what he pleases. This is a very very important distinction. The way that Jobs friends treated Job disgusted God. I mention this because just telling people God does what he wants is just what they did. This topic is very very important and should be handled with great care. I think it's more about trust. Life can be a good thing for some people. You're right it should be handled with care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 243 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,971 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,889 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Figure of eighty said: I don't know. I'm not God. Since God does intervene on our free will from time to time ...my OP being one example as well as some examples in the Bible. It just seems like we have free will to an extent. Now you're getting it. There are actually four covariant discernible aspects to our temporal existence as follows: Divine Foreknowledge Divine Predestination Human Volition (aka Freewill) Divine Intervention Obviously we are predestined as to our human form, having no choice as to the features that nature deals us. God foreknows every aspect of us as mentioned, including how we react or respond to everything, which we have an element of choice and control in. God can and does intervene according to His Plan and Purpose for His Creation, as He did with Saul, later Paul, on the road to Damascus. Predestination and Freewill are not mutually exclusive but are interactive elements in much the same way that space and time interact and compliment each other. Edited October 24, 2018 by Michael37 ommissions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,244 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 It amazes me how many of the children who were unwanted and even abused even by their parents are wanted and cherished by God. He is our true Father and the One who desires us to be a part of His family. He created us for a reason: we are to bring glory to Him showing how He can redeem us from the garbage heap and transform our lives into something beautiful. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 907 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,650 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,833 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 Perk of being... you know... God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Figure of eighty said: It does make sense. I believe we exist because of the verse that says he knew us while he formed us in the womb. Alot of people don't want to be here. Wished they weren't born..or just have horrific lives. I think it'd be fair if it were possible we could get a glimpse of what our lives would be like and entail and then decide...but we don't. We're just created and out here. ( But that's just me.my thoughts blah) No, it doesn't make sense. Free will means you have a choice. For God to violate your free will, you have to actually exist first and you have to actually be able to make a choice. God cannot violate your free will before you exist. Your initial question is simply a non-starter in that regard. 7 hours ago, Figure of eighty said: Also do you believe we have souls? Our souls are etenral which is why God paid the price to save them. Yes, we have souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted October 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 513 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,194 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,358 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) As far as man having free will. Scripture says; Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, God has called upon both Heaven and earth to witness against the man, that says man has no free will. But not like the animals have free will, where they can only act according to their nature. For they had no choice as to which nature they received. As with a dog you can feed or beat or love a dog and it will never act like a cat, for it’s against its nature. Man on the other hand is truly free for there are only two possibilities for a sentient being who’s will is free. They can have a good nature or bad. These are the only two possiblilities for a sentient being who’s nature is free. God has created man free whereby man can choose which nature he wants, whether it is good or bad, is totally up to the man himself. We are the choosers. For every creature that has life has to have a nature. God has given man the ability to choose his. Much love in Christ, Not me Edited October 24, 2018 by Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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