The Trinity

[Fisher of Men]

Body soul and mind are one person. To use the analogy of what constitutes one body or person and insist that it relates to 3 persons is not a sound analogy.

It's a mystery how he could be God manifest in the flesh and at the same time pray to the Father. We can use the analogy of the right arm. If you stick your arm in a fire to rescue a child who has fallen therein, your arm sends signals to your head via pain telling you to pull out your arm. Because of the need to save the child, you deny that message and do what is necessary. Jesus prayed that the cup would be taken from Him.

The need was too important.

Jesus was the right arm of The Father. Part of that same person, the Almighty.

That is how Jesus could be called the Almighty God in Isa. and also the Everlasting Father.

If you are standing around a corner and I only see your arm, I can say that's so and so.

Your arm is not another person to yourself. When people saw Jesus, the right arm of God, they could say that's God.

Jesus is the express image of God's person. Heb. 1

Not the express image of one of the persons that make up God.

In Jesus dwells ALL the fulness of the godhead bodily. Col. 2:9

[jc49]

[quote name='Bro David

[Guest Bro David™]

Body soul and mind are one person. To use the analogy of what constitutes one body or person and insist that it relates to 3 persons is not a sound analogy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi there,

It is not Body, Soul and Mind my friend.

It is the Body ,Soul and Spirit.

How is it not a sound analogy when the Bible says we are created in God's Image ?

Genesis 1: 26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Do you think God was talking to Himself when He spoke the words above ?

It's a mystery how he could be God manifest in the flesh and at the same time pray to the Father. We can use the analogy of the right arm. If you stick your arm in a fire to rescue a child who has fallen therein, your arm sends signals to your head via pain telling you to pull out your arm. Because of the need to save the child, you deny that message and do what is necessary. Jesus prayed that the cup would be taken from Him.

The need was too important.

Jesus was the right arm of The Father. Part of that same person, the Almighty.

That is how Jesus could be called the Almighty God in Isa. and also the Everlasting Father.

If you are standing around a corner and I only see your arm, I can say that's so and so.

Your arm is not another person to yourself. When people saw Jesus, the right arm of God, they could say that's God.

Jesus is the express image of God's person. Heb. 1

Interesting that you should expound the Trinity has such for your are indeed right.

The Trinity does differ one from the other, but it is never a teaching meant to separate God into three diff" Gods.

We on the other hand are showing that the Bible does display the Triune Nature of God.

Hebrews 8: 1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 10: 12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Here again I show you the distinctness from that of the Father than that of the Son.

The Son is seated at the right Hand of the Father.

Jesus is the express image of God's person. Heb. 1

Not the express image of one of the persons that make up God.

In Jesus dwells ALL the fulness of the godhead bodily. Col. 2:9

Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

I am truly blessed that you should quote from this scripture which defies your theory.

If you are well one who is searching than do follow my line of thought for a second.

If one is taking about The body why would one need to sperate and identify that indeed in Him dwells a fullness of an entity ?

Who are the rest that Jesus is indwellth with ?

In another words can you not see that the author is saying that Jesus makes the God Head full, if you do argue the exegesis:

Do explain why the author would want to invoke the presence of another Existence in an already announced Jesus in his sentence ?

Luke 12: 10

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

This here is another striking statement made by non-other than Jesus Himself by His own words.

Here Jesus says that anyone who speaks against Jesus it shall be forgiven, but anyone who Speaks against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven ?

Why then, do tell me did Jesus make such a striking statement when He is the only Fulfilment of the Godhead ?

I will Tell you, Because the Son is not Greater than The Father, That is why the Nature of the Son is not equally yoked to that of the Father, That is why The Gift of the Comforter is varied form than that of the Father and The Son.

Thus my friend, the Triune Nature of God is Painted for us in The Bible.

Are you searching ?

Hi David,

I agree with you and in fact in my precedent post I have put several quotes from the Bible that spell triune God all over. I am sure we can all be guilty of that in a way or another,thats why we MUST rely on HIS GRACE ,otherwise we wouldn't have any hope...so David, shoot your references,I'll listen with joy.

God bless you

Roberto

Interesting that you should touch on Grace Roberto, do a search on [tsth's] Thread on Grace it is indeed interesting.

May all the Glory be Gods.

YBIC

[Fisher of Men]

Body soul and spirit are not 3 persons. It's 3 aspects of One person.

If the trinity doctrine focused on the triune aspects or offices of God I wouldn't have a problem. But the word persons is used. You say triune nature.

So define persons then if you say there are not three separate and distinct persons..

If I pray to Jesus am I only praying to one person? Is that sufficient or must I make sure I am praying to all three?

In Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When I pray to Jesus I am praying to The Father and the Holy Ghost because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Col. 2:9 fully supports a oneness aspect, the same oneness aspect we see in a person having body soul and spirit. One person, not three.

So I think a definition of "person" is in order. Persons are separate entities or beings.

One person can have 3 jobs or positions and he can use the word person with relation to himself to distinguish his separate offices; "when I occupy the person of City Clerk..." etc.

One entity God. His person is what Jesus was an express image of. Notice it doesn't say "their" images but His image. Heb. 1

What image does the Holy Ghost have if they are separate persons?

So are these 3 persons like clones with identical images?

If they are all the same thing why must we separate them into three persons?

You need to define "persons".

When they saw Jesus here on earth they saw the right arm of the person of God.

This right arm (Jesus) was a person, yes, but looking at it in a fuller spiritual light we can call that manifestation of God's right arm (the person of Jesus) as God himself manifested as the Son of God.

Yes, there is distinction between them but then there is also distinction between your head and your hand.

There is also a relationship between your head and your hand. As shown before, your hand may not want to do what your head wants it to do. There is a connection between your head and hand and then again there is a kind of separation.

The trinity doctrine is taking that separation too far by allotting the separation between arm and head to the extent that it is the same as separate persons.

The same can be said concerning the biblical analogy of Jesus being God's Word.

Do you consider your word (a major aspect of yourself) a separate person to yourself?

If you do, then yes, by all means accept the trinity doctrine as truth.

Oh yes, Jesus is God. and He is more God than the doctrine of Trinity allows Him to be.

Yes, in His form of flesh, with restrictions and limitations placed on Him, the Father was greater than Him.

Jesus existed from eternity in that the Word existed from eternity. Jesus as a person, the ONLY begotten of the Father existed as a person only since Mary 2000 years ago.

Jesus, a person, separate from the Father from eternity?

The Word became a person (Jesus) only 2000 years ago.

And the Holy Ghost, a separate person from the Father from eternity?

God is Holy, God is a Spirit. The Father IS the Holy Spirit.

Aspects of the same being, not separate persons.

Trinity is a very subtil form of polytheism because it refuses to abandon the use of the word persons meaning separate persons. Catholocism is partly pagan, don't adopt any of its pagan baggage.

The name of Jesus IS the name ordained by God to be the name of Himself, the One Being or Person possessing the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Matt. 28

These three are one. 1 John 5:7

Great is the mystery.

Let's accept it with all it's difficulties and not abandon or corrupt those difficulties by an explanation that denies some of the relevant scriptures.

Edited May 21, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[Guest Bro David™]

Body soul and spirit are not 3 persons. It's 3 aspects of One person.

If the trinity doctrine focused on the triune aspects or offices of God I wouldn't have a problem. But the word persons is used. You say triune nature.

So define persons then if you say there are not three Gods.

If I pray to Jesus am I only praying to one person? Is that sufficient or must I make sure I am praying to all three?

In Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When I pray to Jesus I am praying to The Father and the Holy Ghost because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Col. 2:9 fully supports a oneness aspect. the same oneness aspect we see in a person having body soul and spirit. One person, not three.

So I think a definition of "person" is in order.

One person can have 3 jobs or positions and he can use the word person with relation to himself to distinguish his separate offices; "when I occupy the person of City Clerk..." etc.

One entity God. His person is what Jesus was a express image of. Notice it doesn't say "their" image but His image.

What image does the Holy Ghost have if they are separate persons?

So are these 3 persons clones with identical images?

If they are all the same thing why must we separate them into three persons?

You need to define "persons".

When they saw Jesus here on earth they saw the right arm of the person of God.

This right arm (Jesus) was a person, yes, but looking at it in a fuller spiritual light we can call that manifestation of God's right arm (the person of Jesus) as God himself manifested as the Son of God.

Yes, there is distinction between them but then there is also distinction between your head and your hand.

There is also a relationship between your head and your hand. As shown before, your hand may not want to do what your head wants it to. There is a connection between your head and hand and then again there is a kind of separation.

The trinity doctrine is taking that separation too far by allotting the separation between arm and head to the extent that it is the same as separate persons.

The same can be said concerning the biblical analogy of Jesus being God's Word.

Do you consider your word (a major aspect of yourself) a separate person to yourself?

If you do, then yes, by all means accept the trinity doctrine as truth.

Oh yes, Jesus is God. and He is more God than the doctrine of Trinity allows Him to be.

Yes, in His form of flesh, with restrictions and limitations placed on Him, the Father was greater than Him.

Jesus existed from eternity in that the Word existed from eternity. Jeus as a person, the ONLY begotten of the Father existed as a person only since Mary 2000 years ago.

Jesus, a person, separate from the Father from eternity?

The Word became a person (Jesus) only 2000 years ago.

And the Holy Ghost a separate person from the Father from eternity?

God is Holy, God is a Spirit. The Father IS the Holy Spirit.

Aspects of the same being, not separate persons.

Trinity is a very subtil form of polytheism because it refuses to abandon the use of the word persons meaning separate persons.

The name of Jesus IS the name of the One Being or Person possessing the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Matt. 28

These three are one. 1 John 5:7

Great is the mystery.

Let's accept it with all it's difficulties and not abandon or corrupt those difficulties by an explanation that denies some of the relevant scriptures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would not speak with such gusto about Theology when the only interpretations you hold are incorrect my friend.

My Dear friend, I am in awe of your primary understanding of scripture.

1 Jo 5:7 does not say only the words these three are one.

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Even a simple understanding of Scripture can see the Holy Trinity in that verse.

You even quote from Matthew 28 but obviously you have yet to read that chapter with any conviction my friend.

Matthew 28: 19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Even there the Holy Trinity is clearly stated.

My Dear friend, I ask you to let the Holy Spirit Lead you in this avenue, should my words fail to convince you.

The Triune nature of God is True.

What image does the Holy Ghost have if they are separate persons?

So are these 3 persons clones with identical images?

If they are all the same thing why must we separate them into three persons?

You need to define "persons".

I would humbly ask you my beloved to watch how you decide to depict the Trinity for the Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven according to Scripture, and in in the words of Christ Jesus Himself.

Jesus, a person, separate from the Father from eternity?

The Word became a person (Jesus) only 2000 years ago.

Where are you deriving your understanding from, for it is far from accurate my friend.

John 1: 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Revelation 1: 8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus is the Word. He was the Beginning, He will be the End.

He is the creator God.

He was walked this earth has a man 2000 years ago but, He- Jesus my Lord has been around since the Beginning.

Has would the above verses clearly show you.

Let's accept it with all it's difficulties and not abandon or corrupt those difficulties by an explanation that denies some of the relevant scriptures.

I pray you find a better resource for searching through the Bible, the information you have been fed is far from accurate.

Just go through all the Posts that we have exchanged and tell me you do not find a contraband line of thought in your understanding.

Bless You

YBIC

[jc49]

Hi Bro David and Fisherofmen too and everybody here SHALOM

Concerning the "trinity" I will let the Scriptures talk:

Matthew 3

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now ,lets be very very careful, because it is HIS WORD..and we cannot tamper with it but to our damage...ok?

Verse 16 says:

And JESUS..........THE SPIRIT OF GOD.....a voice from heaven saying THIS IS MY BELOVED SON.....

So unless we are blind or we decide to be blind or we reject the word...here we have a DISPLAY of FATHER,SON and HOLY SPIRIT.....do we see ?

Do we understand?

The Lord is ALWAYS very very clear......

At the beginning of HIS ministry The LORD shows WHO ARE the PERSONS involved in this great plan of redemption...namely THE FATHER,THE SON,THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Why do we want to be contentious?Why do we want embrace strange doctrines?

GOD IS THREE and GOD IS ONE at the same time.

Well,PRAISE THE LORD that HE HE IS what HE IS and so pleases HIM to be so let it be. AMEN

We atre not called to be theologians to be saved,neither professors of homiletics or exegesis...WE ARE CALLED TO TUST and OBEY....THE LORD and HIS GOD BREATHED WORD.

This now is a very STRONG WORD :

0 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Have we RECEIVED such ANNOINTING? Don't we see in the above verses THE SON AND THE FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT?

CAN WE DENY THE THREE?

Lets keep it simple by simply believing HIM and not man made doctrines that will bring destruction and the JESUS ONLY doctrine is such a destructive doctrine ...

I had a friend, his name was Francesco Giancola,he received Christ and got saved in Rome.

Then Francesco went to London for study work reason..he was a doctor in medicine..got involved with the Jesus only group, got in total confusion and mental distress and from that day on he lost his mind and tragically committed suicide.

I believe that he is with The Lord 'cause he was genuinely saved and born again...but that legalistic group with their destructive doctrine contributed to his death...

A word of advice,STAY CLEAR OF CULTS,SECTS and DEVIANT GROUPS.

No matter the name they have. THE LABEL on the bottle is NOT a guarantee of the goodness of the content .

I can put a label on the bottle of clear liquid reading PURE WATER but the liquid could be MINERAL TURPS or some other deadly poison.

WE ARE IN THE END TIMES,and DECEPTION EVERYWHERE IS RAMPANT so lets see what our brother JUDE says:

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Jesus only group are a SECT and we should STAY AWAY from SECTARIANISM.

Glory be for ever and ever to THE FATHER,THE SON and THE HOLY GHOST,AMEN!

[Fisher of Men]

No one has demonstrated how I am wrong. We use the same scriptures, believe that Jesus is God and know that there is no other way to the Father but by Him.

My explanation of scripture is not a denial of scripture and my questions are not blasphemous. To boldly claim God to be 3 separate persons you need to be ready with the answers to the questions that position will generate. The unreasonable reaction to what I have brought out in way of discussion is very much like the reaction of blind loyalists afraid to think outside of the box of thought they have been taught. It's a lot like the reformers who were met, not with biblical reason but with, "oh, but that's not what what the church teaches". Critical thinking is suppressed by the fear of what others will say who are also afraid of what their superiors will say. But some of what the reformers said was right and it was contrary to what had been taught and held dear for generations

Some of you are not listening.

The great mystery of marriage makes the husband and wife one person or two bodies yet one flesh. In God's view they are one body. They become one flesh when married. They are no more twain but one flesh.

The principle applies to the godhead.

[Note: the word trinity has taken on a meaning by way of familiar usage so that it is often understood to mean "the godhead". It's like the word Coke being used to mean soft drinks in general. While I agree fully with 1 John 5:7 (all of it) the "these three are one" is where we find difference.]

So I agree that we are made in his image (not their images) and therefore God can, and is called, a person (Jesus likened him to a man who bears witness in John's Gospel)

When Jesus was born we do have now another person of the godhead. But by the knowledge of scripture relating this deep mystery, we see this Person is the same Person, which we cannot separate, even as we cannot separate our hand from the rest of our body and call it another person, or say our word is another person.

Adam and Eve were literally one flesh, Eve having been made from his rib. They were 2 "persons" yet the same flesh or same body or "person"

The great mystery of the oneness of marriage is similar in principle to the great mystery of the godhead

You will agree with me on John 1:1-3 that there is an unmistakable oneness here.

Father and Son are 2 "persons" yet one entity, the Word.

So I don't mind the word persons as long as it is clarified and rightly divided with the rest of the Word and will agree that the 2 Persons are one Person, indivisible as indivisible as the wife is from her husband which the scriptures declare to be the same body. Eph. 5

This is how the scriptures should be looked at with a spiritual mind. Father Son and Holy Ghost are 3 yet they are one "Person".

The biblical analogy is "arm" and "Word" of the same person to describe the three.

Nowhere do we see in scripture the explanation of body soul and spirit to describe God as being 3 distinct and separate persons being in full agreement with each other.

Yet this non biblical analogy will be dearly defended because, like the catholics of old loyal to their leader (I dare not use the "P" word) many are afraid to consider any other possibility of understanding. What explanation is better aligned with scripture?

Concerning the Holy Ghost.

Paul made reference to the spirit that is in man.

We all have a human spirit.

We are made in the image of God.

Is our spirit another person?

So likewise, God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit is what makes up that one Person, God Almighty.

Jesus, in John, when speaking of the Holy Spirit said "I will come".

Can't you see, His Spirit, His Word, His Right Arm Jesus are all part of that same one Person.

The person of Jesus should be looked at scripturally to be ultimately not a separate Person and entity, as the trinity projects, but as a person after what scripture calls a great mystery, which person was an extension of that One Person as our arm or word is an extension of our one person.

I FULLY agree with strong verses from Rev. 1 etc. Those fully support my position as do all the verses quoted on this thread.

Manifestations of the same God; Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not in any way denied by me.

Rather the trinity explanation of them being separate persons denies my fuller view of them being one.

I still haven't gotten a definition of "persons".

Those intent on slinging accusations of sects or cults need to show biblical proof where "body soul and spirit" are said to represent 3 persons of an alleged trinity when in reality that phrase is always used relating to our singular person. They also should answer my former questions which were not blasphemous.

Turning the godhead into a very subtile form of polytheism by the non clarified usage of the word persons, implying separate persons from eternity should make those propagating that subtle polytheism ready with answers.

In John 3:13 Jesus is on earth and He speaks of himself being in Heaven. He was conceived by that same Spirit which is the Father's Spirit which is the Holy Spirit, not a separate Person. He was the Holy Spirit made flesh as well as the Word made flesh as well as the Father made flesh. When they saw Him, they saw the Father. That same Spirit in Him was there with Abraham, that's how Jesus could say "before Abraham was I am". Jesus is the "I Am" because Jesus is the one God manifest in the flesh.

Isn't it true, when speaking of trinity, people get a picture in their mind of 3 persons standing together in heaven from eternity?

When in reality, the one Person from eternity, God, the Father of all, when the time

came, had His Son to be begotten through Mary.

True, it was ordained by God from the beginning that He would do this, to have His Word manifested in the flesh in due time as the Son of God.

So in this light yes, The Word (or Jesus) existed from eternity. But Jesus as a person separate from the Father from eternity and the Holy Ghost another separate person?

I don't see this in Scripture.

You guys object to what I say with scripture, yet you give no clarificatoin on how those scriptures allegedly disagree with me.

I am fully dedicated to defend the written Word of God.

Take for example Jesus' baptism; the voice from heaven was the Word, the Father, the same Word that was manifest in the flesh as the Son (John 3:13 KJV). The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of that One Person, our Heavenly Father.

Great is the mystery of godliness

God was manifest in the flesh.

By the way, what are "Jesus only". It appears that some here are suggesting that I am one of them.

You can call me Father only and Holy Ghost only and Son only collectively, but don't call me Jesus only for that is not what I am. The only "only" I hold is that God is One and He is only one person who we call God who is made up of the titles of Father Son and Holy Ghost.

Also the only one name given under heaven, which name the Father has decided to give to Himself now that he has come as a man to redeem his creation unto Himself.

"My own right arm"

Edited May 22, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[Guest Bro David™]

Lets look at the book of Revelation for a moment. Here we see Jesus, the speaker, who is God according to Jn. 1:1-14, and speaking. We know this is Jesus because the Father did not die. Only Jesus died, and this speaker, who is God, "Liveth and was dead"(Rev. 1:18). Lets look at how he introduces himself, and then we will look at how he refers to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea

So then Jesus, who is the SON OF GOD is at the same time the "First and the Last." Jesus is NOT the Father. How can I know this? He said as much just a few paragraphs later. God is one BEING manifest in three PERSONS.

Jesus, who is God, said:

Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Now if Jesus IS God, then who is Jesus' God? The Father! Who else was Jesus praying to while he was on the earth? If God were manifest only as one person, then Jesus could not pray to the Father, since he was God. But since God IS one BEING manifest in three PERSONS, then Jesus was praying to God the Father. Adn in fact worships the Father.

Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

In Revelation chapter 4 we see a description of God the Father sitting on the throne in heaven, then we see a lamb, who is the "Lion of Judah" come and take the book out of the Father's hand. The Lamb is Jesus, who is God, who is the "Root of David."

Rev. 5: 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Here we see the ONLY ONE GOD, who is the Father, sitting on the throne, and at the same time THE ONLY ONE GOD, who is Jesus, comes and takes the book out of his hand. So right here we see two distinct PERSONS, both of whom are THE ONLY ONE GOD. Now to tie in the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 

John 16:7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 

Now Jesus makes a distinction between himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. They are 3 different PERSONS, but the same God. They had to be different persons, because Jesus was DEAD after the crucifixion. the Scriptrue says GOD raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 2:32 - This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 

Acts 4:10 - Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 

Acts 10:40 - Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 

Acts 13:30 - But God raised him from the dead: 

Acts 13:37 - But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

The man Jesus, who never ceased to be God, could not raise himself from the Dead. He was DEAD! The Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Luke 4

1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

How could Jesus be "full of the Holy Ghost" if he WAS the Holy Ghost? He couldn't! The Holy Ghost is a seperate person.

Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

Same deal, if Jesus was the Holy Spirit, how was he "upon"  himself? Jesus is God, but he is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not the Father. The Father is God, but he is not the Son.

Mark 12:36 - For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 

Now in order for this to be true, either God is more than one person, or else he is "beside himself."

Matthew 20:23 - And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. 

Mark 10:40 - But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 

Jesus was GOD, but it wasn't his to give. If the Father and the Son are the exact same PERSON, this could not be the case, but since they are one BEING in three PERSONS, then this means that Jesus, who is God, did not have the authority to grant this request. If Jesus is the only "person" of the Godhead, then this makes no sense, but if God is "in three persons", then this makes perfect sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great to see your thorough posting back in the boards WSB.

Much of what I wanted to expound further on has already been done.

Let the seekers hear.

May The Lord Bless us All.

YBIC

[jc49]

Lets look at the book of Revelation for a moment. Here we see Jesus, the speaker, who is God according to Jn. 1:1-14, and speaking. We know this is Jesus because the Father did not die. Only Jesus died, and this speaker, who is God, "Liveth and was dead"(Rev. 1:18). Lets look at how he introduces himself, and then we will look at how he refers to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea

So then Jesus, who is the SON OF GOD is at the same time the "First and the Last." Jesus is NOT the Father. How can I know this? He said as much just a few paragraphs later. God is one BEING manifest in three PERSONS.

Jesus, who is God, said:

Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Now if Jesus IS God, then who is Jesus' God? The Father! Who else was Jesus praying to while he was on the earth? If God were manifest only as one person, then Jesus could not pray to the Father, since he was God. But since God IS one BEING manifest in three PERSONS, then Jesus was praying to God the Father. Adn in fact worships the Father.

Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

In Revelation chapter 4 we see a description of God the Father sitting on the throne in heaven, then we see a lamb, who is the "Lion of Judah" come and take the book out of the Father's hand. The Lamb is Jesus, who is God, who is the "Root of David."

Rev. 5: 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Here we see the ONLY ONE GOD, who is the Father, sitting on the throne, and at the same time THE ONLY ONE GOD, who is Jesus, comes and takes the book out of his hand. So right here we see two distinct PERSONS, both of whom are THE ONLY ONE GOD. Now to tie in the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 

John 16:7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 

Now Jesus makes a distinction between himself, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. They are 3 different PERSONS, but the same God. They had to be different persons, because Jesus was DEAD after the crucifixion. the Scriptrue says GOD raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 2:32 - This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 

Acts 4:10 - Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 

Acts 10:40 - Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 

Acts 13:30 - But God raised him from the dead: 

Acts 13:37 - But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

The man Jesus, who never ceased to be God, could not raise himself from the Dead. He was DEAD! The Father raised Jesus from the dead.

Luke 4

1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

How could Jesus be "full of the Holy Ghost" if he WAS the Holy Ghost? He couldn't! The Holy Ghost is a seperate person.

Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

Same deal, if Jesus was the Holy Spirit, how was he "upon"  himself? Jesus is God, but he is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not the Father. The Father is God, but he is not the Son.

Mark 12:36 - For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 

Now in order for this to be true, either God is more than one person, or else he is "beside himself."

Matthew 20:23 - And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. 

Mark 10:40 - But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 

Jesus was GOD, but it wasn't his to give. If the Father and the Son are the exact same PERSON, this could not be the case, but since they are one BEING in three PERSONS, then this means that Jesus, who is God, did not have the authority to grant this request. If Jesus is the only "person" of the Godhead, then this makes no sense, but if God is "in three persons", then this makes perfect sense.

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GREAT POST BROTHER,GREAT PRAISE THE LORD!!!!HALLELUJAH!!!!Good on u mate whysoblind!!!!

[Guest Bro David™]

Hi Bro David and Fisherofmen too and everybody here  SHALOM

Concerning the "trinity" I will let the Scriptures talk:

Matthew 3

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now ,lets be very very careful, because it is HIS WORD..and we cannot tamper with it but to our damage...ok?

Verse 16 says:

And JESUS..........THE SPIRIT OF GOD.....a voice from heaven saying THIS IS MY BELOVED SON.....

So unless we are blind or we decide to be blind or we reject the word...here we have a DISPLAY of FATHER,SON and HOLY SPIRIT.....do we see ?

Do we understand?

The Lord is ALWAYS very very clear......

At the beginning of HIS ministry The LORD shows WHO ARE the PERSONS involved in this great plan of redemption...namely THE FATHER,THE SON,THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Why do we want to be contentious?Why do we want embrace strange doctrines?

GOD IS THREE and GOD IS ONE at the same time.

Well,PRAISE THE LORD that HE HE IS what HE IS and so pleases HIM to be so let it be. AMEN

We atre not called to be theologians to be saved,neither professors of homiletics or exegesis...WE ARE CALLED TO TUST and OBEY....THE LORD and HIS GOD BREATHED WORD.

This now is a very STRONG WORD :

0 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Have we RECEIVED such ANNOINTING? Don't we see in the above verses THE SON AND THE FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT?

CAN WE DENY THE THREE?

Lets keep it simple by simply believing HIM and not man made doctrines that will bring destruction and the JESUS ONLY doctrine is such a destructive doctrine ...

I had a friend, his name was Francesco Giancola,he received Christ and got saved in Rome.

Then Francesco went to London for study work reason..he was a doctor in medicine..got involved with the Jesus only group, got in total confusion and mental distress and from that day on he lost his mind and tragically committed suicide.

I believe that he is with The Lord 'cause he was genuinely saved and born again...but that legalistic group with their destructive doctrine contributed to his death...

A word of advice,STAY CLEAR OF CULTS,SECTS and DEVIANT GROUPS.

No matter the name they have. THE LABEL on the bottle is NOT a guarantee of the goodness of the content .

I can put a label on the bottle of clear liquid reading PURE WATER but the liquid could be MINERAL TURPS or some other deadly poison.

WE ARE IN THE END TIMES,and DECEPTION EVERYWHERE IS RAMPANT so lets see what our brother JUDE says:

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Jesus only group are a SECT and we should STAY AWAY from SECTARIANISM.

Glory be for ever and ever to THE FATHER,THE SON and THE HOLY GHOST,AMEN!  :)

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Good post jc49.

Shalom my Brother, although I still disagree with your joke about the RCC, I find your post here very refreshing and un-diluted in presenting the Gospel.

I loved it !.

May the Blessing of God be upon you.

YBIC