Is submission a bad word in marriage? Do you agree with this devotion?

[Guest Butero]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 4:20 PM, maryjayne said:

submission is nothing to do with domination. Modern definitions of words can infer ideas which were not meant. 

For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord:  whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.  1 Peter 3:5,6

[Guest Butero]

43 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Enjoyed the teaching. Thought it was spot-on. My Father-in-law once asked where that passage was that said a wife should submit to her husband (his wife was a gem and he was a (can't use the appropriate descripture here), I whispered to him that he didn't want to quote that verse because the context was that Husbands lead by serving their wives in as dramatic a fashion as Christ dying on the cross for our sins. He got the message, and since he was not about to start serving his wife, let the conversation die there. 

This is an easy message intellectually. Living it is difficult. 

We are speaking of two different kinds of submission.  The husband has actual authority over his wife.  He is her lord, not the Lord.  Jesus has authority over us all.  Husbands will submit to their wives to meet their needs, as Christ gave us an example through washing his disciples feet.  He didn't have to submit to them and meet their needs because they had any authority over him.  Jesus is Lord, yet he submitted to his Mother in turning water into wine.  He submitted to people requesting healing and deliverance.  The submission between a wife towards her husband is different than the submission of a husband towards his wife.  

[Uber Genius]

16 minutes ago, Butero said:

We are speaking of two different kinds of submission.  The husband has actual authority over his wife.  He is her lord, not the Lord.  Jesus has authority over us all.  Husbands will submit to their wives to meet their needs, as Christ gave us an example through washing his disciples feet.  He didn't have to submit to them and meet their needs because they had any authority over him.  Jesus is Lord, yet he submitted to his Mother in turning water into wine.  He submitted to people requesting healing and deliverance.  The submission between a wife towards her husband is different than the submission of a husband towards his wife.  

If you reread my post you will see that I don't use the word submit. I use the word serve. I serve my wife by providing for her financially. I serve my wife by loving her in her love language. I serve my wife by taking her to restaurants that she likes but that I do not like. I watch TV shows that I can't stand because she enjoys them and also wants to watch them while laying on top of me. When we fight I lead by apologizing for my response not by placing blame on her for starting the quarrel. I pretend that I'm a cook and make meals for us, I then pretend to be a maid, and clean up after dinner, especially when she has had a hard day at work. Once or twice a year we will do have a situation where it is both critical and urgent that we make the right decision. I ask for her input as she is one of the wisest I know, but the buck stops here.  

I make zero arguments from authority since God has given us both rationality, no need to play that card. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Uber Genius

[Guest Butero]

11 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

If you reread my post you will see that I don't use the word submit. I use the word serve. I serve my wife by providing for her financially. I serve my wife by loving her in her love language. I serve my wife by taking her to restaurants that she likes but that I do not like. I watch TV shows that I can't stand because she enjoys them and also wants to watch them while laying on top of me. When we fight I lead by apologizing for my response not by placing blame on her for starting the quarrel. I pretend that I'm a cook and make meals for us, I then pretend to be a maid, and clean up after dinner, especially when she has had a hard day at work. Once or twice a year we will do have a situation where it is both critical and urgent that we make the right decision. I ask for her input as she is one of the wisest I know, but the buck stops here.  

I make zero arguments from authority since God has given us both rationality, no need to play that card. 

So you are saying your Father-in-law never does any of those things for his wife?  

By the way, I don't believe the wife is responsible to have to work outside the home, so if she is sharing the husband's burden to earn a living by the sweat of his brow, it makes sense he would share her burdens.

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, other one said:

the Greek word that is used for love in this instance is the Greek word used for the Love that God loved us when ha agreed to die for us.....    it goes on to explain that we should love our wives as he loved the church.....    that's pretty determining from my viewpoint.

 

It's still going to be subjective. And it's not the sacrifice on the cross in view here, it's a close personal relationship. If this passage meant husbands were supposed to die for their wives what does that mean? Is it literal or figurative? Maybe some think as long as they are willing to give up the ghost for the wife they did their job. Maybe some think they died to self for their wives when they give up poker night with the boys.

The real gist here is is the order of things. The husband is the responsible party, the wife's duty is to recognize her husbands position and responsibilities. Where men go wrong is their failure to rely on the guidance of the Spirit, and the abdication of close personal involvement with their own flesh. Women fail to place themselves in the position determined by the Lord for the husband wife relationship for a number of reasons. In any case personal actions are not determined by the behavior of others. As individuals in the marriage the precepts are clear and we bear the responsibility of personal behavior so set forth, no matter what the other does. 

To get to the abhorrent concept of 'submit' and the truth we have to release the subjective definition of the term and determine the objectivity of the one we say we follow, Christ. The idea of "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." is a willingness to place oneself second in a two person institution. It cannot be forced, if a woman will not place herself in the position determined by the Lord for this relationship, nothing the man does can change that, and if he tries it will end in disaster; and if she refuses, she is not following the Lord's will.

This goes for everyone in Christ:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I suppose the real problem is the fact the church doesn't follow the Lord like they should. Maybe that's why the women don't follow the men in their lives; the men don't establish a solid set of behaviors in submission to our Lord. I think this is borne out by the divorce rate in the christian community and it's a frightening statistic.

Each has a responsibility to the Lord for the health of this closest of all relationships. What I'm saying here depends on all things being equal, so to speak; the lack of violence and vice and the existence of spiritual focus. 

[Diaste]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:11 PM, other one said:

why in the world would the wife not be submissive to her husband.

Missed this earlier. Great question. The answer would explain this,

 6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food,and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

No need to follow Adam here as Eve saw the Lord frequently, knew the fruit was forbidden, and ignored the command.