What is your view of hell?

[DarrenJClark]

5 hours ago, Stu of Whoville said:

My view is kind of in transition, but for the most part I would consider myself to be an annihilationist.  That would be quite similar to your second option.

Yes, it is true, that Jesus talked about hell more than he talked about heaven. However, people don't seem to realize also talked about the destruction of the soul in hell. There are several places where he speaks of the death of the soul.

However, there are also verses that seem to indicate eternal suffering as well. I am uncertain of which position to take because the Bible seems to indicate both options in various places.

For example, Jesus speaks about the death of the soul in verses like

• Matthew 10:28  Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
• Luke 9:24  “For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.  For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?"

Both of those indicate death of the soul.

However, there are other verses that seem to speak of eternal torment. For example

• Revelation 14:11  And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Thus, I am uncertain.  In my heart, I am an annihilationist, but it might be that I am wrong.

For what it is worth there are very good reasons why Rev 14:11 does not support the idea of eternal conscious punishment in hell.  It has to do with how John used the OT in his work.  Ian Paul is am Anglican scholar from England and a specialist in the usage of imagery in Rev, having completed his PhD in that field of study and written the new ed. of the Tyndale commentary.  He comments as follows, 

"Though the phrase smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever (AT) has been interpreted as indicating a continual experience of torment (which raises some particular theological problems), this is difficult to sustain in the light of the parallel at 19:3, where in an identical phrase the ‘smoke from [the city Babylon] rises for ever and ever’ (AT). It is impossible to imagine the city being perpetually destroyed; the image must signify the eternal effect of its destruction, rather than an eternal process of destruction (cf. the destruction of Edom in Isa. 34:10)."

Paul, Ian. Revelation: An Introduction And Commentary (Tyndale New Testament Commentary) . IVP. Kindle Edition. 

Additionally, the "no rest day or night" is in the present tense in a way that shows the lack of rest relates only to while the worship is happening.  In other words, it is not referring to a lack of rest occurring into eternity.

It is something to think about.

[Stu of Whoville]

6 hours ago, DarrenJClark said:

For what it is worth there are very good reasons why Rev 14:11 does not support the idea of eternal conscious punishment in hell.  It has to do with how John used the OT in his work.

It is also interesting to note that this scripture refers specifically to those who worship the beast and take his image.  Therefore, in addition to the Old Testament reference you mentioned this verse seems to refer to 'not to the wicked as a whole' but only to those who worship the beast. It may, therefore, never have been intended to speak of hell for all the wicked but rather for a select few in a specific instance.

[DarrenJClark]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven.

None of the options I listed necessarily deny hell's existence, though it is interesting to read that many people simultaneously deny there is a hell while embracing there is a heaven.

[DarrenJClark]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin

I find the idea of infinite, a mathematical term denoting a never ending sequences of events or items in a line (etc.), a weird term to apply to God.  There is no such thing as a true infinite scenario because you there is always the reality that further events can happen or more things can be added.  Think of an infinite line of candles.  That is impossible simply because you can always add another candle to the line.  So that is why Christian philosophers generally do not use infinite to describe God since it implies he is incomplete.  They prefer to use words like maximally loving, or maximally great, and so forth

[DarrenJClark]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10).

I hold to conditionalism, the second option.  I am happy to explain how we exegete the verses you cite, if you like.

[HAZARD]

 

God forces no one to obey Him. 

Men can and  must freely choose to love and obey God to receive all of His promised blessings. If they choose to obey the will reap all the promised blessings, if they choose to disobey, to rebel, to sin, they will reap the promised curses.

God created hell for the devil, his angels and his rebel followers.

When its all done and dusted men will be able to look into Hell for ever and see those there suffering in eternal flames if they want to see. It will be a good reminder of where one will end up if one chooses to fall. Hell will be an eternal monument.

It is plainly stated in Isiah 66:22-24, where the prophet predicts that all natural men on the New earth will be able to look into Hell upon men who have FREELY CHOSEN to sin and rebel against God. Revelation 14:9-11 also proves that men will be tormented in the presence of God and His faithful angels forever. These are literal passages and should be understood just as they are read.

All about hell as recorded in Scripture.

Hell is mentioned in many dozens of Scriptures throughout the Bible. There are five departments in the underworld of departed Spirits, not one of these places is associated with or is the grave where bodies are buried.

The five departments of Hell are;

One). Paradise, which we are speaking of here;

In Luke 16:19-31; 23:43, we have pictured total comfort and water in this prison because the rich man saw Lazarus afar off in comfort and bliss and asked him to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue (Luke 16:19-31). This was the abode of the righteous souls from Adam after dying and leaving their bodies, being held captive by the devil against their wills till Christ's death and resurrection (Heb. 2:14-15; Eph. 4:7-11). Before Jesus Christ conqured the power of death and Hell, the devil had these powers. (Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 2:14-15; Rev. 1:18).
It was into this prison the repentant thief went with Christ the day they both died (Luke 23:43). This prison is located in the heart of the Earth as is clear from Matt. 12:40 and Eph. 4:7-11. Jesus not only went into this prison but He also went into another prison, "Tartarus," and preached to the fallen angels being held there in their own special prison. Jesus having conqured Hell and death and the grave during His crucifiction and during the three days He was in the underworld, He captured all the righteous souls that were in Paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11). Jesus now has the keys to Hell and death (Rev. 1:18). Rightious souls who die now no longer go here. They go straight to Heaven when they die.

Two). Tartarus; This prison is the special prison for the fallen angels that sinned both before and after the flood. There is nothing recorded in Scripture that teaches demons or human beings ever go into this prison. In these passages it is clear that there is a real Hell that is not the grave and that Spirit beings are confined in chains until judgment (1 Pet. 3:19; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6-7).

Three). Hell itself; (Matt. 16:18; Luke 16:19-31). This is the torment part in the unseen world and was, still is, and will yet be the abode of all the wicked souls and spirits of men from Able to the end of the Millennium. Then, at this time all the wicked will be liberated out of this prison and will be given their own immortal bodies and be judged before being cast into the "lake of fire" forever (Rev. 20:11-15; 21:8).

Four). The Bottomless Pit or Abyss is the abode or prison of demons and certain angelic beings. No human being is ever thrown into the abyss. It is a very deep chasm in the lower parts of the Earth. It is translated "deep" (Luke 8:26-31; Romans 10:7) and "Bottomless Pit" in Rev. 9:1-3, 11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1-10). All these Scriptures prove that there are prisons in the lower parts of the Earth for departed sinning spirits, and they are not and could never be the same as a grave on the surface of the Earth.

And Five). The Lake of Fire, is the eternal Hell and perdition of wicked men, demons, fallen angels, and all rebellious creatures of all ages who have ever rebelled against God, and who have refused to repent when they could have. It is called "The Gehenna of Fire" and is always translated Hell (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). This prison is also called "the second death, which is the lake of fire" (Rev. 2:11; 20:6, 14). This final Hell was prepared for the devil and all his angels (Matt. 25:41-46), and for all other rebells, and it is ETERNAL in duration (Rev. 14:9-14; 20:10-15; Isa. 66:22-24; Matt. 25:46). There is no record in Scripture of anyone being the lake of fire at present. Scripture does show that the beast and the false prophet will be the first to be cast into it. This will happen before the Millennium (Rev. 19:20). They will still be there 1,000 years later when the devil and all other rebels will be cast into it (Rev. 20:10-15).

Scripture also teaches that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell as far as remorse and torment of the conscience is concerned (Matt. 10:15; 11:22; 12:41; 23:14; Mark 6:11; 12:40; Luke 10:14; 11:31, 32; 20:47).

 

These degrees of punishment will be because of the kind of sins committed by one that were not committed by another. No man will be punished or could have remorse over something he did not do. They will all regret rebelling against God and man and failing to believe in Jesus, and repenting of sin.

 

[missmuffet]

22 minutes ago, DarrenJClark said:

I hold to conditionalism, the second option.  I am happy to explain how we exegete the verses you cite, if you like.

I guess you will just have to wait and find out if you do not believe in what the Holy Bible says. 

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, missmuffet said:

I guess you will just have to wait and find out if you do not believe in what the Holy Bible says. 

Well, I do believe the Bible, thoroughly.  Do you think everyone who interprets a verse differently to you is disbelieving the Bible?   

[HAZARD]

20 minutes ago, DarrenJClark said:

Well, I do believe the Bible, thoroughly.  Do you think everyone who interprets a verse differently to you is disbelieving the Bible?   

The Bible needs no interpretation. A God who wrote a book by which men will be judged, and wrote it in such a way that it needed to be interpreted by experts to be understood would be no God at all. The Bible is a simple book to understand because it was given by God to be understood by the simple. Following the commonly accepted argument that a perfect God cannot make anything imperfect, we can scripturally say that God did not fail in His purpose of giving man a simple revelation that could be easily understood by all men alike, even by the simple (Deut. 29:29; Ps. 119:104, 140; Proverbs 1:1-4; 2 Timothy 3:15-17). Paul speaks of "the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Cor. 11:3). Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were hidden from the worldly wise who refused to believe, and stated that God has "revealed them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25-27). He gives the reason truths are hidden from anyone. It is because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt.13:10-17). Jesus speaks of the devil taking the Word from the hearts of men lest it should bring forth fruit (Matt. 13:19-23. Paul also speaks of the devil blinding the minds of men lest they should believe, and he also speaks of men wilfully handling the Word of God dishonestly and deceitfully (2 Cor. 4:1-6).

The most simple beginners can understand the Bible one line at a time, for this is the way it was given, and it is the best way to understand it (Isa. 28:9-13). No man can get the vastness of the Bible at once. It is the infinite scope of the Bible truth that causes some men to think the Bible is hard to understand. Its  like someone saying they cannot understand water because they cannot drink the whole ocean dry in one drink.

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, DarrenJClark said:

Well, I do believe the Bible, thoroughly.  Do you think everyone who interprets a verse differently to you is disbelieving the Bible?   

Some do not listen to our teacher which is the Holy Spirit. The Bible is clear on the important essentials and heaven and hell are a couple of those.