Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, JustPassingThru said:

I won't TRY to answer your questions, ...I let the Word answer them!

1. Jesus was the first thing John saw in Heaven, the words in bold text are your answer:

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.  And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. 

Just for the gee whiz file, ...jasper is white and the sardine is red, ...pure light and blood were represented as a simile of Jesus sitting on the Throne, ...not only is Jesus represented in this simile, in chapter He is represented in a simile as a Lamb freshly slaughtered.

2. Because chapter 4 is all about the Throne of God and Jesus seated on it, ...you read it, it's too long to post here.

3.  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,  Acts 2:1-4

Write the things which thou hast seen (Chapter 1), and the things which are (Chapters 2&3), and the things which shall be hereafter (Chapters 6-22);  Rev 1:19

..the things which are,  ...the Church age.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;  Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Rev 2:11 

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;  Rev 2:29

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:6 

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:13

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:22

 

End of the Church age, or as Pail calls it the Dispensation of Grace.  Eph 3:2

If you don't believe what is written here then you need to take it up with God, ...I didn't write the book.

I'm finished here...

I hate to give you a failing grade, but you TOTALLY missed the first answer, because you failed to understand the question. I will take the blame for that. We were talking about the vision of the throne room in chapter's 4 & 5.  Your answer did not come from either chapter 4  or 5. 

Now let's try again, and I will make it perfectly clear: IN CHAPTER 4, the vision of the throne room, Jesus was NOT SEEN at the right hand of the father, yet we have over a dozen verses telling us that is where He SHOULD HAVE BEEN in 95 AD. 

Jesus' question to me and now my question to you is, WHY did John not see Jesus at the right hand of the father in chapter 4?

Just so you know, "behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.  And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. " Is the FATHER on the throne. All through scripture He is seen seated on His throne. But Stephen SAW JESUS at the right hand of the Father. John did not. The question is, WHY NOT?

(Note, if Jesus HAD BEEN THERE, John would have seen TWO rainbows: one around the Father and one around Jesus. The problem is, it seems Jesus was NOT THERE. Again the question is, WHY?

It seems you totally missed trying to answer the second question. A search was made to find one worthy to take the book and open the seals, yet that first search FAILED. NO man was found. The question is, WHY? 

 

Write the things which thou hast seen (Chapter 1)  John DID.

, and the things which are (Chapters 2&3),  John wrote to the churches that were at that time.

and the things which shall be hereafter (Chapters 6-22);  Rev 1:19 John CERTAINLY wrote of hereafter things. However, I get the hint that you THINK John wrote, "and ONLY the things which shall be hereafter..."  Sorry, there is no "only" there. John was free to write some history along with what was to be future - and he DID. 

Did you notice that in chapter 5, verse 6, that at that moment in time, Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room, and the Holy Spirit was immediately sent down? WHERE then was the Holy Spirit in verse 5, and in verse 4, and in verse 3, and in verse 1 and verse 1, and in chapter 4? He was IN the throne room. Again the 3rd question is WHY? And notice that Jesus suddenly appeared. So WHERE was Jesus in verse 5, and in verse 4, and in verse 3, and in verse 2 and verse 1? And where was Jesus in chapter 4? (Remember, it was the Father on the throne.) 

If John was seeing the throne room of 95 AD, Jesus should have been at the right hand of the Father, and a search for one worthy would NOT have failed, and the Holy Spirit would have already been sent down. 

YOU STILL have three questions to answer correctly. So far you are batting ZERO - having missed all three questions. I guess, because you are "just passing through" that you did not take time to do any research or even think much about your answer. Ah! Because you thought you knew...when in fact, you did not.

Edited March 24, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Lol, Impressed with what?  I’m not sure what is being discussed here. Of course there are men here in chapter 5....the 24 elders for sure. I’m not sure where Enoch and Elijah are hanging out either. 

So, Who are the THEY in verse 9. Well you have to go back a bit to answer that. In this case, only to v8...

8. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

is someone arguing whether men were in Heaven in C5?  

He thinks, because the elders were seen there, that PROVES the church has been raptured and the CHURCH is in heaven.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

What is the source of your point of this partial rapture?

This is what I cite to prove a total rapture:

2 Thessalonians 2 (NASB95)
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come*.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only HE who now restrains will do so until HE is taken out of the way. ← !!!
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,
17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.

* The Apostle Paul was responding to rumors (by what amounts to first century preterists) that the day of the Lord had ALREADY come.  

Full rapture of the Holy Spirit filled Body of Christ (believers / the Church) at the time the beast is revealed (shows his true colors to the Jews and the world).

John, there are millions in the world that call themselves "Christian" that have never been born again. Some because they simply would not make Jesus the Lord of their life; others because their church never taught them about the necessity of being born again; others because they were never taught that they were "lost." For whatever reason, when Jesus comes to take His bride away, MUCH of the world will be left behind.  Rev. 12 tells us there is a remnant that trust in Jesus. He does not tell us WHO they are or WHY they were left behind - all we know is that they WERE left behind.  My source then is Paul's scriptures on the rapture, and John in Revelation.

"Total?" Surely you don't believe that NON born again people will be raptured!

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

The word `throne` means authority, (not a seat, that is symbolic). God did not create His authority, His authority is of Himself. All other authority, (thrones) come from Him.

And Jesus as we know went to the right hand of the Father, to the ETERNAL THRONE, (authority) of the Godhead, from whence He came. And the Godhead dwells in unapproachable light, (1 Tim. 6: 16) Thus no one could go there, except Deity and Jesus is Deity.

Marilyn.

How do you correlate this verse with others?

Isaiah 6:1

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Ezekiel 1:26

And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Daniel 7:9

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Acts 7:55

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

 

There has been many people who testify of being in the throne room and SEEING the Father on the throne.  One man saw Jesus walk right into the Father and the two become one, and then walk right out and again and appear as two. I see no reason to think they are lying. Isaiah and Ezekiel both saw God on the throne, as well as John in Rev. 4.

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

The word `throne` means authority, (not a seat, that is symbolic). God did not create His authority, His authority is of Himself. All other authority, (thrones) come from Him.

And Jesus as we know went to the right hand of the Father, to the ETERNAL THRONE, (authority) of the Godhead, from whence He came. And the Godhead dwells in unapproachable light, (1 Tim. 6: 16) Thus no one could go there, except Deity and Jesus is Deity.

Marilyn.

The KJV translates Strong's G2362 in the following manner:throne (54x), seat (7x).

a throne seat

Even Jesus went to sit at the Father's right hand. He will sit on the throne (a seat) not sit on His authority. 

It is the authority that is symbolic, and the seat is real. 

[Spock]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He thinks, because the elders were seen there, that PROVES the church has been raptured and the CHURCH is in heaven.

I guess he believes the elders represent the raptured church, I guess.

[iamlamad]

36 minutes ago, Spock said:

I guess he believes the elders represent the raptured church, I guess.

Some people do. I don't.

[JohnD]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

John, there are millions in the world that call themselves "Christian" that have never been born again. Some because they simply would not make Jesus the Lord of their life; others because their church never taught them about the necessity of being born again; others because they were never taught that they were "lost." For whatever reason, when Jesus comes to take His bride away, MUCH of the world will be left behind.  Rev. 12 tells us there is a remnant that trust in Jesus. He does not tell us WHO they are or WHY they were left behind - all we know is that they WERE left behind.  My source then is Paul's scriptures on the rapture, and John in Revelation.

"Total?" Surely you don't believe that NON born again people will be raptured!

Surely I will not let others put words in my mouth (by circular reasoning or otherwise).

When the Great Tribulation occurs there will be no believers in Jesus on Earth.

When the Jews cry out to him as a last resort he will come and save them and they will weep for him as

an only son.

I have shown the scriptures that support this (in fact which convinced me of this) and

 extrabiblical reasoning NEVER trumps scripture.

 

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, iamlamad said:

God WAS Spirit. But the body part of GOD BECAME flesh. You know this! He will forever have the flesh of His Creation. 

We may never know how much this cost Him!

Yes, amazing to think, God the Holy Spirit is holding together the elements that make up hell, the fire, and the people in hell!

4 above: God lost His authority over earth when He gave it to Adam. Then Adam gave it to Satan. Slowly, through Abraham, God has gained some authority over earth back, through the church. Today WE have the authority, so God must work through the church. 

When the 7th trumpet comes, God will get His authority on earth back.  

Hi iamlamad,

God IS (& always will be a spirit. (John 4: 24 `God is a Spirit...)

Jesus was manifest as a man, and He is Son of God, and Son of Man. he is deity, part of the Godhead, (Spirit) and also has a glorified body as we well know.

God NEVER gave His authority over the earth away. `The earth IS THE LORD`S and ALL its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein, for he founded it...` (Ps. 24: 1 & 2)

Satan usurped authority over MAN, and that is the battle. When Jesus was manifest as a man, He never gave away His right over it. As God the Father`s heir the Lord Jesus inherits the earth, `Ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance.` Ps. 2: 8)

You are muddled bro in your thinking, and do not have scriptures to back up what you say. Thus NO credibility.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, JohnD said:

Howdy,

 

When you realize this, you understand the only reason one would interpret the definition of saints in Revelation 13 as pertaining to the Jews who are on Earth 

is the predetermined bias for a pre-tribulation rapture alone.

 

 

Hi JohnD,

You have given NO scripture/s to support your view, thus it is your own reasoning. Are you above God? well bro, I think you better find out what He says and NOT what you think without back up scripture/s.

Marilyn.