2020 Presidential Election, Your Vote

[Debp]

9 hours ago, Stu of Whoville said:

Socialism always seems wonderful at the beginning. They tell us that the rich will pay for everything and there will be plentiful goods for everyone else. "Healthcare" - oh well, the rich will pay for that.  "Free college tuition" - we'll let the rich pay.  "Universal preschool" - Oh the rich just need to give a little more.   It's always the same solution. Take more from the rich and give to everyone else.  Of course, the money of the rich quickly runs out at which time they turn toward you to take your money in order to pay for their promises.

Very quickly, your property becomes not your property anymore.  No your property belongs to the government for them to redistribute as  they see fit. The money you earn with your hard work will now belong to them. They will decide that for this year you get to keep 60% of your income, but come next year you will only be allowed to keep 40%.  You see, the government needs your money so much more than you do.  They have made so many promises and they need some way to pay for all that free stuff they intend to give away.

The end result is that your wealth becomes the property of the government, not the individual.   The government will then go a step further and seize not just the wealth of the individual but the wealth of corporations as well.  Some government bureaucrat will be given the task to decide on behalf of Nike how many tennis shoes they get to make. A government bureaucrat will tell Apple how much of their profits they get to keep. They will put their own people in charge . They will replace the board of directors to set their own companions and cronies in their places.

All of this confiscated wealth will eventually wind up as a great big pile of money sitting in Washington D.C. just waiting for someone to distribute.  That pile of money will attract those who loves money and loves the control it gives over others. What better control could they have than the ability to decide who gets health care and how much healthcare they get. Why that's the power of life and death. They will decide for you whether you get to have that cancer treatment you so desperately need.

And all of a sudden you're not a free person in a free country anymore. Somebody else is making your decisions for you. It sounded so good when they were promising all that free stuff, but all it really did was to give them the right to take your wealth from you and to make decisions in your place instead of you. They will protect you from making your own decisions, because after all you're neither smart nor sophisticated enough to make decisions for yourself.  No you are the child of the state. The nanny state will take care of your needs (or not) as the nanny state decides.

Socialism is simply another name for slavery, and thus our election choice for this year boils down to this: will we vote slavery for ourselves - or freedom.

So basically Socialism just leads into Communism....that means the government will also tell you what career or type of work you are to do, based on what they think your abilities are.   And everyone getting the same wages.   At least that's what we were taught in school about it.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Debp said:

So basically Socialism just leads into Communism....that means the government will also tell you what career or type of work you are to do, based on what they think your abilities are.   And everyone getting the same wages.   At least that's what we were taught in school about it.

Yes.

When asked where has Socialism or Communism actually worked, the current crop of Socialists Democrats change the subject to another "talking point".  They are afraid of the answer ... nowhere.  The ONLY WAY Socialism can ever hope to work, One World Government.  Even then, Socialism fails.  Total control by the Socialist elite, the result will be the rest of us falling into the Working Class Poor or Useless Eaters.  Europe is already going this way.

[Stu of Whoville]

1 hour ago, PepperS said:

That is not how it is in modern day socialist countries such as, Sweden, Holland, Canada, England, Israel etc.

Extreme liberalism can lead to communism, just as extreme conservatism can lead to fascism.

The best path is capitalism with strong checks and balances between the 3 branches of government.

Those in favor of socialism often point to Sweden, Holland, Norway and Denmark as examples of successful socialist policies.  However, all of those countries were significantly more socialist in the past and are now moving toward market economies because socialism had such disastrous consequences for them.

You are right that in the 1970's–80's the Nordic countries experimented with tax-and-spend socialism.  By 1993 they were spending 67% of their GDP on public programs (meaning that 67% of every dollar earned in Sweden was taken for welfare spending.)  Since the poorest citizens have nothing to contribute, that means that upper income citizens were being taxed at a 90% income tax rate (Meaning that 90¢ out of every $1.00 they earned was confiscated in taxes).  But tax-and-spending did not work: Sweden fell from being the fourth-richest country in the world in 1970 to the 14th by 1993.   Since then, Sweden has slashed its corporate tax rate down to a much more reasonable 22%. 

These confiscatory tax rates have also left many people from the Nordic states deeply in debt.  On average, Nordic citizens carry almost 3 times as much personal debt as American citizens do. 

In 1993 a decision was made to correct the staggering tax burden placed on Swiss citizens. They deliberately chose to turn back to the right in their fiscal policy. They lowered tax rates, slashed public spending and ended many of the social welfare programs. Unlike the characterization given by many in the U.S., Switzerland now has one of the most capitalist economies in the world.

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Also, I believe that your analogy is incorrect.  I believe the correct analysis might be "Extreme liberalism can lead to communism, just as extreme conservatism can lead to anarchy."

Fascism means control by a centralized state. No true conservative would ever support that. What we as conservatives want most is to be left alone. We believe that every person should be required to earn his or her own way in the world. We would gladly burn 95% of government programs to the ground leaving only the bare minimum behind. It could be that our policies would end in an insufficient amount of government. Extreme conservatism might cut too deeply so that needed services were slashed, but I don't believe that conservatism would ever lead to centralized government control - which is what fascism is.

 

[Mozart's Starling]

Issue with Trump is he is such a wordly man. He not long ago supported abortion, has cheated at least once and has been married multiple times, and clearly has an insane ego. I think he has more faith in himself than anything. Also he is wrathful and childish. Literally the only thing I can say FOR him is at least now he is fighting abortion (heard he de-funded planned parenthood which is great). So I can't decide atm. After all if he doesn't serve God there is only one other he can serve correct? Still abortion needs to be stopped. Never liked him but if he actually continues on the anti abortion path I'll swallow my pride and vote for the man despite how detestable I find him. It'd just be so much easier if the republicans had a more traditional candidate. I'd vote for them so fast your head would spin if they did lol.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Mozart's Starling

[johnthebaptist]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:41 PM, Debp said:

I will vote for President Trump again.   I think he is doing a good job, he has eased up on the tweets .   He has helped the economy, is pro-life, is appointing conservative Supreme Court Judges and more.    Under Obama we didn't get any Social Security increase for four years which really hurt.....under Trump we got our increase, the biggest amount my mom and I ever received which helped neutralize our annual rent increase.

The liberals are really planning to get President Trump out of office.   There are often noisy protests against him here.   I have a cousin in NJ who is going to vote against him.

One of my other cousins and his wife are voting Trump again.  They live in the Panhandle of Florida and say it's Trump country.   I also know some pro-life people who will vote Trump again.   So how about you?   Will you vote for him?   Also, what about your area of the country?

The Democrats are moving so far to the left, they might be handing Donald the presidency in 2020 on a silver platter. That would please me a great deal.

[Debp]

On 2/25/2019 at 4:56 PM, johnthebaptist said:

The Democrats are moving so far to the left, they might be handing Donald the presidency in 2020 on a silver platter. That would please me a great deal.

I agree totally.   

[Firm Foundation]

Trump is doing a good job.  I plan to  vote for him.

[createdequal]

On 2/21/2019 at 8:28 PM, PinkBelt said:

Anyone but Trump.

looks like you are not pro life

 

how sad

i will point out the obvious: you can't have the right to free speech

or the right to bear arms

or the right to vote

if you do not have the right to live

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by createdequal

[createdequal]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:09 AM, choir loft said:

 

T All politicians promise the moon, but when elected they serve their contributors not the voters.  As soon as they are sworn into office they begin reelection fund raising campaigns to secure the next election.  

This is why the Left hate Trump so much: because he is mostly NOT like that. He does a lot of things that are not popular with the Establishment. That is why he is hated more than past R presidents imo

[createdequal]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:41 PM, Debp said:

I will vote for President Trump again.  ..   So how about you?   Will you vote for him?   Also, what about your area of the country?

I live in a liberal state

I am voting for Trump AND trying to get others to do the same. I think all Rs should work over-time trying to get others to vote for Trump. The Democrats are, as one commentator on Fox said "a clown car"

and yet clowns are supposed to be funny. THEY are not the least bit funny. They are SCARY. Their policies would destroy the US economy.  They want the min wage to be so high that small businesses cannot afford to pay people to work for them. Restaurants in particular operate at a small profit margin and many of them have had to make serious cut-backs since the min. wage was raised in certain lib states. This hurts not wealthy people, not big business but small business AND poor people who need these entry-level jobs. THe dems never seem to really think much about the consequences of their bad policies. They do not care if their policies hurt the poor. We have had so many lib presidents... and yet we still have so much poverty and homelessness.