Michael (limmuwd) Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Those that think “ doing their best” is going to get them to Heaven are damned. Sorry. “ doing your best” is a far cry from meeting God’s Standard. That would be Perfection.If your eyes are opened by the Holy Spirit, you will see that you are nothing but a wretched, lost, Hell deserving sinner.If you are blessed in that manner to see the Truth of your condition before a God who is Holy, you might look for an alternative plan that was actually given by God to help us hopeless , helpless sinners.God has that plan that was hidden for millenia. It’s called “ the Gospel”. Sound familiar? I thought so. Find it in 1Cor15:1-4. Believe Jesus died for all of your sins and that He arose from the grave and you are home free— literally.You will be in my prayers.... That is the message that the majority of church-goers hear from the pulpits Sunday mornings. Sadly. The great bulk of Scripture must be ignored or put off onto the Jews or unbelievers, or just flat our rejected to come up with such "doctrine." I won't belabor it, for I'm sure I will be dismissed as well (as were the prophets of old)... but without repentance (turning from sin), surrendering to Christ in everything (yes, it costs us everything), and walking worthy (we must be found worthy; not by association with Christ, but actually worthy) - which is the Way of the Cross, the Way Jesus calls us to follow - we will NOT inherit the promises given only to the Elect who "overcome." The whole of Scripture is clear on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Willa said: Heb 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Heb 12:12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. I thank God he does chasten his children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael (limmuwd) Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Willa said: Heb 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Heb 12:12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears." - Heb 12:14-17 Let us know that the writer is warning "saved" people -who truthfully were far beyond where we are now in the Lord (see Heb 6:1-2) - that they can fall from grace and find no way to return if they continue to sin and assume Jesus will continue to forgive them. He won't. "Without holiness, no one shall see the Lord." True Repentance is a "turning away from sin", not a 'feeling bad' as is often taught today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: Do you believe Paul when he says these who commit certain sins listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 won't inherit the kingdom of God? He doesn't make exceptions for Christians. I do believe him. As always, verses that appear to show Believers can lose their Place in the Kingdom are either taken out of context or they are verses not being addressed to the Body Of Christ.The context is Paul is upset that Believers are letting Unbelievers decide legal cases between Church Members.He is saying “ why do you let thieves, adulterers ,homosexuals,the greedy,etc judge your lawsuits?He reminds his audience of saved Believers that they USED to act this way.BUT this group of Paul’s has been “made righteous”, they have been washed clean by the name of Jesus and they all importantly are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.The first group were terrible sinners- unrighteousness. The second group was not an elite group of non- sinners.They were redeemed sinners saved by their faith in Christ alone- the essential thing that all the thieves, liars,homosexuals ,etc lacked.Newbies ALWAYS remember to check out context and who is being addressed when faced with disheartening verses,that raise doubts.Properly Divide Scripture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: As always, verses that appear to show Believers can lose their Place in the Kingdom are either taken out of context or they are verses not being addressed to the Body Of Christ.The context is Paul is upset that Believers are letting Unbelievers decide legal cases between Church Members.He is saying “ why do you let thieves, adulterers ,homosexuals,the greedy,etc judge your lawsuits?He reminds his audience of saved Believers that they USED to act this way.BUT this group of Paul’s has been “made righteous”, they have been washed clean by the name of Jesus and they all importantly are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.The first group were terrible sinners- unrighteousness. The second group was not an elite group of non- sinners.They were redeemed sinners saved by their faith in Christ alone- the essential thing that all the thieves, liars,homosexuals ,etc lacked.Newbies ALWAYS remember to check out context and who is being addressed when faced with disheartening verses,that raise doubts.Properly Divide Scripture. That is not what it says. What you did is not properly interpreting scripture. It is changing it, and everyone sees this. You will post that nobody can pluck you out of God's hand. We will point out we can walk out, which the text allows for, and you will call that denying scripture, yet you just ignored the fact Paul says if you commit certain sins, you won't inherit the kingdom of God, no exceptions. This isn't going to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Michael (limmuwd) said: "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears." - Heb 12:14-17 Let us know that the writer is warning "saved" people -who truthfully were far beyond where we are now in the Lord (see Heb 6:1-2) - that they can fall from grace and find no way to return if they continue to sin and assume Jesus will continue to forgive them. He won't. "Without holiness, no one shall see the Lord." True Repentance is a "turning away from sin", not a 'feeling bad' as is often taught today. These are people who never received God's grace and salvation. They fell short of it due to bitterness and due to not treasuring his birthright, the blessing of his father and his inheritance. Simon the sorcerer also had a root of bitterness that defiled him when he asked for the power to confer the Holy Spirit on people. Their hearts were not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2:20 Obviously, chastisement or even an early death is not as bad as hell. Do you believe Peter? You are still overlooking this passage Bloodbought. How can chastisement or early death be worse than eternity in hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael (limmuwd) Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Willa said: These are people who never received God's grace and salvation. They fell short of it due to bitterness and due to not treasuring his birthright, the blessing of his father and his inheritance. Simon the sorcerer also had a root of bitterness that defiled him when he asked for the power to confer the Holy Spirit on people. Their hearts were not right. I'm sure that's how pastors attempt to explain it today, but it's just not what the passage states. These absolutely were "saved" individuals who had experienced more in the Lord than you or I. We have to keep the passages in context and realize who the writers of the epistles are speaking to. There is not a single verse in the Bible written to the unsaved. All the promises and warnings are to God's chosen people. The Apostle Paul, as well, spends much of his letters warning those who were saved to hold on to what they had received, grow in the grace of God and come to maturity; for some were beginning to take God's grace and the Cross of Christ for granted and becoming lukewarm. Think... one cannot backslide or neglect something they never had. You can't turn back from the plow unless you were actually plowing. I'm currently sharing a Bible study on 1Corinthians 10 in which Paul shows the "saved" the path they must take as we travel the journey God has set before us that leads to the Kingdom. And he warns that, as Israel in their wilderness, many who began saved, baptized and partakers of Christ fell along the way and failed to obtain the promises of God. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 No one can be saved without God's grace. These failed to obtain God's grace. They fell short of it. That is as plain as it gets. It says see to it that no one falls short of God's grace and then gives examples of people who did fall short. They came with impure motives, warped values and unrepentant hearts, not humbled and broken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said: That would be true if we were doing that on our own without Jesus. His blood washes away those sins done by mistake, and the willful ones we confess. You still have no answers for the scriptures I posted. This is deflection. I would never purposely deflect a question.....there is no question I am afraid of.....I got so much stuff going on , I don’t know up from down right now .....I mean to get back to stuff and I can’t remember where to go or who I was even talking to.....I play golf with people considerably older than me and they all assure me that “ it gets worse”.... lol please note .....the above was not meant to be a deflection...lol what is it specifically you want me to answer.....have pity on an old man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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