So called immigration to USA

[other one]

19 minutes ago, diane32 said:

Do you know who the ruler of this world is? The media? I live in a Country where the media has been to blame for a lot of the hatred people experience...if you seek God in the matter you might find that Jesus loves everyone and if people are fleeing out of fear of death I believe only hard hearted people would turn them away...but that's my opinion...I work in a school where there about 15 children from Syria who have experienced devestation and had to leave their Country in fear...I pray you or anyone elaw with your opinion never has to run for refuge in another land because you might just get turned away

Actually I do know who the ruler of this world is...  hung out with him back in the 70's out of ignorance until God snatched my out of his hands one night while he was offering me some really good deals to actually join him.

The vast majority of the people coming here are not from war torn places lie Syria so to use those poor people as the standard of how we are to treat all of them is kind of off center in my opinion....   and even those that are from those places are a huge danger.     The president preceding our present president brought about 70,000 refugees from Similia and placed them in what turned out to be a single district in Minnesota where they elected a Muslim lady that is involved with terrorist organizations and openly says she wants to overthrow our constitutional form of government and submit us all to Sharia Law....

The dangers of what is going on can actually in a few years destroy our own way of life here so there is a lot more at stake than feeding the poor....

Neighbor wants to leave politics out of the discussion but that really isn't possible for what is happening to the USA to day is politics and if we don't recognize that and deal with it we will be in deep trouble within the next ten years.   They are using our good nature against us.   And because of that it does put us into the predicament that Neighbor expresses so well.    Do you take care of the people who are being sent here to destroy us as a people?

 

btw diane, where do you live

 

[BeauJangles]

4 minutes ago, other one said:

The dangers of what is going on can actually in a few years destroy our own way of life here so there is a lot more at stake than feeding the poor....

Neighbor wants to leave politics out of the discussion but that really isn't possible for what is happening to the USA to day is politics and if we don't recognize that and deal with it we will be in deep trouble within the next ten years.   They are using our good nature against us.   And because of that it does put us into the predicament that Neighbor expresses so well.    Do you take care of the people who are being sent here to destroy us as a people?

 

I understand this, and am also greatly concerned. We need tighter restraints on individuals coming into our country that could at all be in suspect of putting this nation at risk for yet another 9/11.

[diane32]

Other one...why are you worried about the things you shouldnt worry about...Do you believe God is greater?...are you on your knees praying with all your being for the right thing to be done? Why are so many Christians in fear of man? Does it say in the Bible to fear man or God? Look what Jesus went through...He was God...look how they treated God/Jesus...look how we treat Him...yet what does He do...does he tell us to go away we are horrible evil people and he hates us...no He says Father forgive then they know not what they do...He says come to me all you who are weak and heavy burdened and I will give you rest, take my yoke upon you and learn from me cos my yoke is easy and my burden is light...Image if we actually followed Jesus and loved others like He did...

[diane32]

Imagine if we didn't fear like the world fears! Imagine we showed the world that we don't need to fear what they fear because we are not of this world, we are in it but not of it our citizensip is in heaven! Imagine the world looking on and saying what is different about those followers of Jesus they aren't like us, they don't fear the things we do! They have peace they have joy and they love even those who are impossible to love! And then they ask how can you be like this and we tell them it's because of Jesus! He has set us free, He has given us new life, life forevermore and we know the devil is real and evil buy we know our God is greater! Greater is He in us than He in the world! Perfect love casts out all fear..."IT IS FINISHED"

[Neighbor]

Hi, I guess I realize that  one cannot eliminate politics. What I am trying to resolve for and within myself is not the politics but the very basics of when do I try to help a poor person and when do I not. I guess it gets that simple! Not politics so much as my wallet, and just plan willingness to share of all that I may have; or whether to hold back  some or all of what I have, away from a brother or Sister, or an unsaved individual, in need of some help.  Perhaps doing so regardless of the merit of their personal efforts to be self sustaining is harder for me than for many others, I really don't know. For I do not struggle much in resenting the Sec 8 inhabitants on my street that do not work, but have nice new vehicles, and also have police crashing their door no less than six times in a year.

I do see that there are bad people and that bad people rewarded does not improve neighborhoods it makes good neighborhoods turn into bad ones . Perhaps that is what is happening with the incoming  across our southern border, perhaps it is exaggerated. Thing is I have had such good times and good relationships with so many over the years that I have trouble seeing a rush of people much like them as such a bad thing. I have sat  along side a few as we each sing worship, and hear the word of God in sermons in both English and Spanish.

I was once illegally in a country doing work for a Christian ministry, and attended an all nighter revival by  Haitians in Creole. I was the noncompliant one, the one that didn't even know the language- but the brothers and sisters there embraced me, even gave me a hymnal which I couldn't read.

 

[other one]

3 hours ago, diane32 said:

Other one...why are you worried about the things you shouldnt worry about...Do you believe God is greater?...are you on your knees praying with all your being for the right thing to be done? Why are so many Christians in fear of man? Does it say in the Bible to fear man or God? Look what Jesus went through...He was God...look how they treated God/Jesus...look how we treat Him...yet what does He do...does he tell us to go away we are horrible evil people and he hates us...no He says Father forgive then they know not what they do...He says come to me all you who are weak and heavy burdened and I will give you rest, take my yoke upon you and learn from me cos my yoke is easy and my burden is light...Image if we actually followed Jesus and loved others like He did...

where in the world do you live.....    in my country God gave us a constitution to rule over the governing of the country.....   much like he did Israel before they had a king.....   and that constitution makes it our responsibility to take care of it....   it is the people of the country that is responsible to take care of things.   He'll take care of us alright but that usually is in the form of telling us to go do something....   or telling someone else to take care of other things....    but it is usually humans that do the work of God that makes things happen.

I am having trouble understanding if you understand what's presently happening in the USA.  In 1968 I made a commitment to defend the constitution of the USA even with my life if necessary.....    God teaches us to keep our commitments and no one has relieved any of us from that commitment we made when being inducted into the military....   I have police friends who took that oath to be a police officer and other friends who have government jobs who have also promised in one way or another to protect and defend our form of government...

So do you really think 150 million people should just sit back on their butts and expect God himself to take care of something we have already committed to do.     I don't know where you live or how your country is governed, but if it's anything like ours and you won't to things to protect it I would have trouble respecting your actions.....      even when God was leading the Israelites from Egypt he expected them to enter the promise land and fight the giants....  and they refused to do so....   and they spent 40 years wondering around in the desert because they wanted to sit back and do nothing for themselves.....

[diane32]

1 hour ago, other one said:

where in the world do you live.....    in my country God gave us a constitution to rule over the governing of the country.....   much like he did Israel before they had a king.....   and that constitution makes it our responsibility to take care of it....   it is the people of the country that is responsible to take care of things.   He'll take care of us alright but that usually is in the form of telling us to go do something....   or telling someone else to take care of other things....    but it is usually humans that do the work of God that makes things happen.

I am having trouble understanding if you understand what's presently happening in the USA.  In 1968 I made a commitment to defend the constitution of the USA even with my life if necessary.....    God teaches us to keep our commitments and no one has relieved any of us from that commitment we made when being inducted into the military....   I have police friends who took that oath to be a police officer and other friends who have government jobs who have also promised in one way or another to protect and defend our form of government...

So do you really think 150 million people should just sit back on their butts and expect God himself to take care of something we have already committed to do.     I don't know where you live or how your country is governed, but if it's anything like ours and you won't to things to protect it I would have trouble respecting your actions.....      even when God was leading the Israelites from Egypt he expected them to enter the promise land and fight the giants....  and they refused to do so....   and they spent 40 years wondering around in the desert because they wanted to sit back and do nothing for themselves.....

And then Jesus came and He fought for us and He fights for us...we are called to love...pray for our government's yes but anything that involves pride stay away cos pride is why satan was threw out of heaven remember...I don't agree with Christians being in the Army either but then again that's my opinon...when I look at Jesus and His disciples I see something completely different than what you are talking about...but Pride is a massive thing isn't it..

Edited May 18, 2019 by diane32

[Neighbor]

Hi all, Hope each can hold back from panning another's thoughts- least long enough for me to read them as I am seeking  information more than wanting to debate. Most all have been of help to me, a couple I don't yet understand, but that is okay too.

Thanks.

[ayin jade]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, and Thanks all,

 I did get to thinking about the word illegals. Illegals, are "they" illegals though? The Cubans that fled to Florida were illegal if caught while still in the water, but quite legal if they had one foot on the shore and asked for asylum. Seems to me it is similar now all along the southern lands border. A person may be illegal  until they  ask for asylum. Then  they are legally inside the USA for  having asked.

It is all nutty as can be. Yet  it is reality  today, so what  of the refugee, the person or the family that  has made the treck perhaps 1800 miles and survived? Each of them are a human being created by the same God that has created me. Each  of them are here, inconvenient as that is for me who is already heavily supporting the great society  of Lyndon Banes Johnson.  None the less ever more are coming here, and they are for real.

Just how many do I shoot if I am "pack'n"? Do I shoot someone because they litter the desert? Should I shoot someone because they are starving and will steal to get nourishment rather than die of starvation and dehydration? What of the drug runners? Are they worse than their customers? Seems to me if there are no customers then there will be no drug runners, so is it proper to shoot the drug customers? All rhetorical questions. The answer is an obvious no! Of course not. The bravado  of "pack'n" isn't going to be an answer to a real problem.

Seems to me the USA  and even some of Europe is a victim of it's own success. And also is now captive to it's failure to allow a flourishing Christian  community to aid the poor the tired and the hungry as simple service in the name of our Lord Jesus. 

Government intrusion has made that a rather difficult process; where once we set up tents and feed the homeless now the local government made permiting fo rsuch activity  an impossibility, zoned us out of business of helping to feed the poor, because the poor were an undeserable sight  to behold in the other wise fine city atmosphere. Where once I  was able to distribute bread and rolls and foods from restaurants. The restaurants find they can no longer give the supplies, because of the risk that  the items might get transported in non compliant  transportation vehicles and they will run afoul of the local health laws and get sued.

On the one hand I cannot single out an illegal cannot refuse o employ one, but on th eothe rhand once notified by  government tha I have an illegal employ I am subject to a $1500 a day fine. We live in Madhatter-ville. That is the reality  of the unsaved world that I am in, but not a part of. Since I am in,  but not part of, what is my own responsibility, how do I serve my creator Jesus, God who also created the "so called illegal"?

Seems it is easier and clean and clear cut for some to see what they are to do, but it is a most tough one for me. And so I do appreciate commentary from  other brothers and sisters. I do thank you all.

 

Oh boy, where do I start?

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I did get to thinking about the word illegals. Illegals, are "they" illegals though?

 

 

Yes they are illegals. Once here, they are still illegals because they have broken our laws to get here. The pc term is undocumented, but that just glosses over the fact that they entered the us but ways that violate our laws. They are not legally here. 

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so what  of the refugee, the person or the family that  has made the treck perhaps 1800 miles and survived?

Those current so called refugees are coming on busses. They are not making a rough trip on foot. There are groups that are mostly sponsored by george soros that are providing food, transportation, legal advice etc to these caravans that are coming lately. The media is mostly quiet on this, but if you do some digging into who funds the groups that are helping these caravans, you will find that most of them are soros groups.

[ayin jade]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

And so I do appreciate commentary from  other brothers and sisters. I do thank you all.

 

Ooops I hit send a bit too soon...

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Just how many do I shoot if I am "pack'n"? Do I shoot someone because they litter the desert? Should I shoot someone because they are starving and will steal to get nourishment rather than die of starvation and dehydration? What of the drug runners? Are they worse than their customers? Seems to me if there are no customers then there will be no drug runners, so is it proper to shoot the drug customers? All rhetorical questions. The answer is an obvious no! Of course not. The bravado  of "pack'n" isn't going to be an answer to a real problem.

 

 

The general public shouldnt be shooting. But these folks are coming over and hurting/ killing folks as they come. 

Organ pipe national monument on the border in az had much of the park closed due to illegals crossing and commiting violence. There is a memorial to one of their rangers who was killed by illegals. Ive been there and seen it, and seen how dangerous it is just to visit. A rancher was killed on his property by illegals. There are carjackings and just recently 2 americans were kidnapped in a border city by mexicans. 

The drug cartels are crossing well armed like an army and highly dangerous. In mexico, the drug cartels have killed thousands and dumped them in mass graves. They have put bounties on policiticians and police in mexico and the us. In mexico, politicians and police are routinely assasinated and the reports of this are often not reported in their media due to death threats. Word gets out though. In that regard, they are far worse than their customers. 

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 Seems to me the USA  and even some of Europe is a victim of it's own success. And also is now captive to it's failure to allow a flourishing Christian  community to aid the poor the tired and the hungry as simple service in the name of our Lord Jesus. 

 

 

Take a good look at the photos of these illegals. Poor tired and hungry is not how they can be described these days. The ones that I see in real life on an almost daily basis are in better condition than the indians Ive seen on the reservations or the veterans Ive seen on the streets.

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 Government intrusion has made that a rather difficult process; where once we set up tents and feed the homeless now the local government made permiting fo rsuch activity  an impossibility, zoned us out of business of helping to feed the poor, because the poor were an undeserable sight  to behold in the other wise fine city atmosphere. Where once I  was able to distribute bread and rolls and foods from restaurants. The restaurants find they can no longer give the supplies, because of the risk that  the items might get transported in non compliant  transportation vehicles and they will run afoul of the local health laws and get sued.

I noticed much of this occured under the obama administration, the same administration that openly encouraged illegals to come to the us. 

One thing you and others can do to help the poor is grow vegies for them. Food banks can use them, and they often will trade with other food banks when they have large excess supplies, such as oranges from arizona may trade with potatoes from idaho etc. Get your church to grow a garden for the poor too. Great project for the youth to come and weed, plant, water etc. 

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how do I serve my creator Jesus, God who also created the "so called illegal"?

 

The bible also tells us, and them, to obey the laws of the land. One can help them in their countries instead of turning a blind eye to how they entered the us. There are many groups that help them within their country, and missionaries there too. A servant of the Lord can help them there. One can also help the indians and homeless on our streets who need help. I recently came across a fine charity that helps provide medical care to the homeless with a mobile unit, and even provides a nursing care facility for those needing some longer care. I never knew such a thing existed until I happened to see the mobile unit at a park a month ago. They are in desperate need of money and volunteers. The homeless have less medical care than any of the illegals here in my state.