Tzit tzit

[Guest Zayit]

I don't understand the four corners deal.  Where does it specify corners (ie a square garment)?

Right here:

D'varim- 22:12

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself.

12 "You are to make for yourself twisted cords on the four corners of the garment you wrap around yourself.

[M45510G1C]

Where does it say ben means only males? It also means children.

Yes, it can mean children. The word is masculine, and is generally interpreted that way barring contextual problems (such as women only experiencing pain while birthing a male, if only, eh? )

I do believe it means sons in this particular passage. However, if a sister feels pressed to wear them, or wants to interpret it as all of Yhvh's children, that's a great thing. I see no scripture to suggest it would be wrong or disgraceful for a woman to wear tzit-tzit.

Right here:

D'varim- 22:12

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself.

12 "You are to make for yourself twisted cords on the four corners of the garment you wrap around yourself.

I do not believe that a square garment is what is neccessarily being referred to here. The word is kanaph, which can mean edges or borders. For this reason I do beleive that we should wear tzit-tzit on any garments, not just square ones. I also hold that contrary to traditional orthodox thinking, belt loops are a perfectly acceptable thing to which to attach tzit-tzit. I do think it may bear further study on my part, but I think the point is wearing the fringes, not what you're wearing them on.

[Guest Zayit]

I do not believe that a square garment is what is neccessarily being referred to here.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Zayit

[Guest Zayit]

Where does it say ben means only males? It also means children.

Yes, it can mean children. The word is masculine, and is generally interpreted that way barring contextual problems (such as women only experiencing pain while birthing a male, if only, eh? )

I do believe it means sons in this particular passage. However, if a sister feels pressed to wear them, or wants to interpret it as all of Yhvh's children, that's a great thing. I see no scripture to suggest it would be wrong or disgraceful for a woman to wear tzit-tzit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, but if it isn't speaking to all the Children Of Ya'akov then that means that women can wear Linen/wool garments? As that mitzvah immediately preceeds it.

11 You are not to wear clothing woven with two kinds of thread, wool and linen together. 12 "You are to make for yourself twisted cords on the four corners of the garment you wrap around yourself. D'varim 22

B'midbar 15: 18 "Speak to the people of Isra'el; tell them, 'When you enter the land where I am bringing you 19 and eat bread produced in the land, you are to set aside a portion as a gift for ADONAI. 20 Set aside from your first dough a cake as a gift; set it aside as you would set aside a portion of the grain from the threshing-floor. 21 From your first dough you will give ADONAI a portion as a gift through all your generations.

This is the challah and I do believe that this was a "woman's work".

And further down that passage:

37 ADONAI said to Moshe, 38 "Speak to the people of Isra'el, instructing them to make, through all their generations, tzitziyot on the corners of their garments, and to put with the tzitzit on each corner a blue thread. 39 It is to be a tzitzit for you to look at and thereby remember all of ADONAI's mitzvot and obey them, so that you won't go around wherever your own heart and eyes lead you to prostitute yourselves; 40 but it will help you remember and obey all my mitzvot and be holy for your God. 41 I am ADONAI your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt in order to be your God. I am ADONAI your God."

Women should be holy to , nu?

Both times, 'people' is translated from 'bayn' and I believe in this passage it has to be speaking to the woman also, for they could bring false g-ds into Isreal just as the men could.

D'varim 17 17:2If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

17:3

And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

17:4

And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 17:5

Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Both men and women can go "a whoring".

[M45510G1C]

You raise a very interesting point. I honestly have never really considered the idea, and it definitely bears further study.

Was there any point in history where it was customary for women to wear tzit-tzit? I don't know that this has much if any bearing on whether or not they should, I'm just curious.

[Guest Zayit]

I dont' think there is much on written record, but I did read somewhere awhile ago that an Orthodox Rabbi was studying on that parsha and decided that the L-RD did indeed mean women also and tied tzitziot to his wifes apron!

Gives new meaning to holding onto your momma's apron strings, doesn't it?

[Ahavah]

Kinda like those Jesus fish stickers people have on their cars, ever have one pass you while flipping you the bird at the same time?   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HAhahahhaa..YES..I've had that done to me!!!!! I'm not an aggressive driver so I ALWAY seem to get that finger..and I thought they were telling me I was Number one!!!

[Shimshon]

Too much. Yes, on the way to work just today I noticed a vehicle passing me over the speedlimit with a fish that said "JESUS". I thought "what a shame Yeshua". Like father like son, meaning, like Jew like Christian. Jews proclaim Holiness and Oneness with God and yet deny his very words infront of all the world. And many see the same thing in "Christianity". Both supposed to be representing the essence of God on earth and failing miserably.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Shimshon

[Guest Zayit]

HAhahahhaa..YES..I've had that done to me!!!!! I'm not an aggressive driver so I ALWAY seem to get that finger..and I thought they were telling me I was Number one!!! 

But you are!

Edited June 9, 2005 by Zayit

[Ahavah]

HAhahahhaa..YES..I've had that done to me!!!!! I'm not an aggressive driver so I ALWAY seem to get that finger..and I thought they were telling me I was Number one!!!