Neighbor Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Tigger56 said: I am curious of the background of others in the forum. What were you taught? And what are your beliefs about alcoholic beverages? Well, I did see my father drink water once. He got very ill almost died, we had to cal 911. Later even he joked about it. "Never ever touch that stuff again". He was a productive man, for 78 years till his liver failed him. As for me I do not consume alcohol, as my body no longer does well under it's influence. It never did really. While I am not a king having to make kingly decisions and have special need to be sober to do so, I figure why risk it? I can get as comfortable and exuberantly high as I might want to be in joy of the word of God and being with his people, sober, but not necessarily soberly and somber. God has been so good to me. I got past all that schmoozing and country club three hour lunch and wining and dining clients and workers long ago. Blessed by God's tolerance and patience with me his bond- servant to be. My belief? My father lived to 78, an alcoholic, a man that did many very good deeds for mankind, an inventor, a helper to good cause, but also a man that never knew God unless he finally did on his death bed at a hospital. He was known as a man that could drink more than anyone that had been seen before by anyone else. To me the alcohol is irrelevant. I sure wish I had been better able to share of Jesus with him. That is what is relevant. I think one of the things that strengthened his resistance from even hearing was the intolerance of some people that called themselves Christian. The sober somber ones that seemed to have no joy and no purpose other than to judge other people as inferior to them, many of whom would criticize anyone that ever drank a drop of alcohol, the very fuel that ran my father's body for all of his very productive life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Well, I did see my father drink water once. He got very ill almost died, we had to cal 911. Later even he joked about it. "Never ever touch that stuff again". He was a productive man, for 78 years till his liver failed him. As for me I do not consume alcohol, as my body no longer does well under it's influence. It never did really. While I am not a king having to make kingly decisions and have special need to be sober to do so, I figure why risk it? I can get as comfortable and exuberantly high as I might want to be in joy of the word of God and being with his people, sober, but not necessarily soberly and somber. God has been so good to me. I got past all that schmoozing and country club three hour lunch and wining and dining clients and workers long ago. Blessed by God's tolerance and patience with me his bond- servant to be. My belief? My father lived to 78, an alcoholic, a man that did many very good deeds for mankind, an inventor, a helper to good cause, but also a man that never knew God unless he finally did on his death bed a a hospital. He was known as a man that could drink more than anyone that had been seen before by anyone else. To me the alcohol is irrelevant. I sure wish I had been better able to share of Jesus with him. That is what is relevant. I think one of the things that strengthened his resistance from even hearing was the intolerance of some people that called themselves Christian. The sober somber ones that seemed to have no joy and no purpose other than to judge other people as inferior to them, many of whom would criticize anyone that ever drank a drop of alcohol, the very fuel that ran my father's body for all of his very productive life. Thanks for sharing and for that beautiful reply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bawcash Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Tigger56 said: I am curious of the background of others in the forum. What were you taught? And what are your beliefs about alcoholic beverages? Dad was a Baptist preacher and alcohol was evil. We lived in a white trashy area of the U.S. and alcohol was a big part of life and I saw lives destroyed and lost to alcoholism, including family members. As a young man in the army I drank some and got drunk a few times but nothing life changing. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it isn't alcohol that destroys lives. It is stupidity that destroys lives. Now in my 50s I enjoy good beer, good wine and good whiskey all in moderation. I am very health conscious so that helps me to not be stupid. I find that most people who stand on a soapbox against alcohol are missing the point that it is unwise choices that destroy lives. Alcohol is just a tool to accomplish the task. No different than the car you use to go meet your girlfriend when you cheat on your wife. Therefore cars are evil and we should all refrain from using them. A bit of an exaggeration but you get my point. Root cause analysis: Poor choices destroy lives. We use different tools to get the job done though. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bawcash said: Dad was a Baptist preacher and alcohol was evil. We lived in a white trashy area of the U.S. and alcohol was a big part of life and I saw lives destroyed and lost to alcoholism, including family members. As a young man in the army I drank some and got drunk a few times but nothing life changing. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it isn't alcohol that destroys lives. It is stupidity that destroys lives. Now in my 50s I enjoy good beer, good wine and good whiskey all in moderation. I am very health conscious so that helps me to not be stupid. I find that most people who stand on a soapbox against alcohol are missing the point that it is unwise choices that destroy lives. Alcohol is just a tool to accomplish the task. No different than the car you use to go meet your girlfriend when you cheat on your wife. Therefore cars are evil and we should all refrain from using them. A bit of an exaggeration but you get my point. Root cause analysis: Poor choices destroy lives. We use different tools to get the job done though. Thank you for sharing and for the wisdom of your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 349 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,504 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,401 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV) Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Timothy 5:23 (KJV) Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Perhaps a better question I would ask myself; am I bringing attention to myself and glorifying the Lord Jesus by my actions and appearance? Back before I repented, I drove locally for a living; I would often stop at a selected tavern for lunch and a cold soda, they had an excellent and tasty lunch at a good price. Today if I did the same thing, and someone from my church or someone I knew saw me coming out of the tavern, what would "they" think? Would I be helping or hurting my witness and work for the Kingdom of God? Others judge us by their perceptions of our actions and walk. We are to be the "salt and light" not the beer and wine. Like Lay's potato chips, bet you can't eat just one. I personally don't believe drinking a little beer or wine is a sin, and perhaps still has some health benefits if ingested in very small quantities. However, how much is too much, at what point does it alter your thinking, how would or do others seeing you drink alcohol reflect on Christianity and your witness? Does one want to constantly explain yourself even if you have the opportunity of doing so? Since you asked, maybe a short personal testimony will illustrate my thoughts. In brief, I was an alcoholic for decades, I probably drank more beer than what an Olympic size swimming pool holds in my lifetime; it didn't start off that way naturally. Long story short; one day out of the blue, the Holy Spirit finally broke me down and convicted me of my sins and I repented. In tears and a mess I confessed my sins to the Lord and asked Him back into my life, and to straighten out my life and do His will for my life. In earnest prayer, I humbly asked the Lord for three things, of which He graciously answered all three of my prayer requests. The first thing I prayed and asked for was, that He take my taste for beer away and help me never to put my lips to a beer again. WOW! I don't mean sometime later on, but immediately the Lord made beer and alcohol repugnant to my taste and made me physically sick. No AA or secular intervention, treatments, chemicals, twelve step programs; I had no shakes, cravings, withdrawals, desires, wants or anything again. No one can tell me otherwise; that was a miracle by the Grace of God! I mentioned some of my baggage and dirty laundry to make a point and remind myself also. That we are ambassador's for Christ and His Kingdom; we are to avoid and abstain from even the "appearance" of evil. I can imagine the confusion that couple had between your shirt and the beer going hand in hand? One of my favorite hymnals is, "Let Others See Jesus in You". 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger56 Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 679 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 1,327 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 992 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: 1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV) Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Timothy 5:23 (KJV) Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Perhaps a better question I would ask myself; am I bringing attention to myself and glorifying the Lord Jesus by my actions and appearance? Back before I repented, I drove locally for a living; I would often stop at a selected tavern for lunch and a cold soda, they had an excellent and tasty lunch at a good price. Today if I did the same thing, and someone from my church or someone I knew saw me coming out of the tavern, what would "they" think? Would I be helping or hurting my witness and work for the Kingdom of God? Others judge us by their perceptions of our actions and walk. We are to be the "salt and light" not the beer and wine. Like Lay's potato chips, bet you can't eat just one. I personally don't believe drinking a little beer or wine is a sin, and perhaps still has some health benefits if ingested in very small quantities. However, how much is too much, at what point does it alter your thinking, how would or do others seeing you drink alcohol reflect on Christianity and your witness? Does one want to constantly explain yourself even if you have the opportunity of doing so? Since you asked, maybe a short personal testimony will illustrate my thoughts. In brief, I was an alcoholic for decades, I probably drank more beer than what an Olympic size swimming pool holds in my lifetime; it didn't start off that way naturally. Long story short; one day out of the blue, the Holy Spirit finally broke me down and convicted me of my sins and I repented. In tears and a mess I confessed my sins to the Lord and asked Him back into my life, and to straighten out my life and do His will for my life. In earnest prayer, I humbly asked the Lord for three things, of which He graciously answered all three of my prayer requests. The first thing I prayed and asked for was, that He take my taste for beer away and help me never to put my lips to a beer again. WOW! I don't mean sometime later on, but immediately the Lord made beer and alcohol repugnant to my taste and made me physically sick. No AA or secular intervention, treatments, chemicals, twelve step programs; I had no shakes, cravings, withdrawals, desires, wants or anything again. No one can tell me otherwise; that was a miracle by the Grace of God! I mentioned some of my baggage and dirty laundry to make a point and remind myself also. That we are ambassador's for Christ and His Kingdom; we are to avoid and abstain from even the "appearance" of evil. I can imagine the confusion that couple had between your shirt and the beer going hand in hand? One of my favorite hymnals is, "Let Others See Jesus in You". What an awesome miracle! Thanks for sharing that. I agree you should avoid the appearance of evil, but purchasing a pack of beer at a grocery store during the day should not qualify for that. I suppose I could dress in dark coat and hat and go late at night, peering over my shoulder to see if anyone saw me and with trembling hand and bated breath quickly race to the cashier praying that no one judges me and is offended (but what if the cashier if offended... man, I'm in trouble no matter what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Tigger56 said: What an awesome miracle! Thanks for sharing that. I agree you should avoid the appearance of evil, but purchasing a pack of beer at a grocery store during the day should not qualify for that. I suppose I could dress in dark coat and hat and go late at night, peering over my shoulder to see if anyone saw me and with trembling hand and bated breath quickly race to the cashier praying that no one judges me and is offended (but what if the cashier if offended... man, I'm in trouble no matter what! Made me recall going to the wholesale electrical supply shop in the church van with all its churchy ID in on it's exterior. The supply shop is directly behind the storefront of a business that faces the main highway. One kind of has to know it is there in back. The store in front? The triple X shop of enticement. So yes I would drive along the very busy main highway and turn into the XXX shop parking lot with the church van to buy electrical supplies. Who knows maybe that encouraged someone to go visit the church- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.77 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Tigger56 said: A couple of days ago I was coming out of an Ingles grocery store. I will often wear Christian theme hats or T-shirts. That particular day I was wearing a shirt that declared on the front, "Ya'll Need Jesus". I wasn't really thinking about the fact that the shirt along with a pack of beer might be offensive to someone, but I had gone into the store to pick up a 12 pack of beer. When leaving the store an elderly man and woman was getting out of their car and the look of judgement was all over the man's face as he saw my shirt and what I was carrying in my hand. I didn't have the beer hidden in a grocery bag as it was the only item I had picked up. I saw him whisper to his wife and both just stared at me as I walked to my pick-up truck. I am in the section of country known as "the Bible belt". I believe it was also on Sunday that I made my purchase. Up until just a few years ago, we also had "blue laws" which prohibited the buying and selling of any alcohol on Sundays. I even grew up in a "dry county" that prohibited the sale of any alcohol. It wasn't my intention to shock the elderly couple and I realize that many in my area are good southern Baptists and they condemn the use of any alcohol and truly believe that Jesus drank only grape juice and never wine even at the last supper. Many grew up thinking that all alcohol was evil and was condemned along with dancing and card playing. (I also like to dance and play cards). I don't make it a habit to offend others and am sorry that they appeared to be offended by me. But I also have no problem with alcohol as long as it isn't drank in excess. I enjoy a cold beer in a frosted mug or straight out a bottle or can. It was made to go with pizza! I also enjoy a good glass of wine and sometimes even a mixed drink. I am curious of the background of others in the forum. What were you taught? And what are your beliefs about alcoholic beverages? Many Christians think it is a sin to drink any alcohol. I think a person needs to have a lot of respect for the consumption of alcohol. It is a drug and has many serious side effects on the body. The Bible does not say that drinking alcohol is forbidden but that getting drunk is a sin. Alcohol should not be consumed everyday. An occasional drink is ok but there are many in our world including Christians who abuse alcohol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bawcash Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Many Christians think it is a sin to drink any alcohol. I think a person needs to have a lot of respect for the consumption of alcohol. It is a drug and has many serious side effects on the body. The Bible does not say that drinking alcohol is forbidden but that getting drunk is a sin. Alcohol should not be consumed everyday. An occasional drink is ok but there are many in our world including Christians who abuse alcohol Right? I heard it explained using Matthew 5:29. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out.... Your eye isn't sinful, your heart is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted August 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Why do I get the feeling, as we are discussing consumption of alcohol, our OP is sitting at home cracking a few brews, and laughing at our comments? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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