Why did God curse Ham's Son?

[DeighAnn]

God didn't curse Noahs son, Noah did.  

[JohnD]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

God didn't curse Noahs son, Noah did.  

Good point.

Did the curse take?

[JohnD]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

the Law was given centuries later and so that law didn't even exist in the time of Noah.  

I don't think such a thing is applied retroactively. 

Not sure if Noah would have been aware of such a law or precept or taboo or not. 

 

Good point. However, there are subtle indications in the text that indicate a revelation from God not recorded ion scripture. For example the way in which Cain slew Abel (a ceremonial type slitting of the throat).

And you refer to the incest that was necessary to procreate and perpetuate the species...

true. But the institution  / implication of marriage (one man for one woman) was revealed in the prototype model of family and procreation itself. There is no reason to believe that it was a common practice for men to have relations with any woman (more top the point: any woman bound to another man by whatever they called it back then)... humanity was not a roving pack of wolves on the scent... some protocols must have been in place... 

And if the later clarification of the Law (passages like Leviticus 18:8) indicate what may very well actually have taken place with Ham and Mrs. Noah (who is unnamed) producing Canaan... if so, this is why Noah cursed Canaan (the offspring of Ham and his own mother).

The Late Chuck Missler postulated that the purity of Noah in his generations had to do with his genes not being polluted with the seed of demon possessed men.  And that this is the reason why God wiped the slate clean with the global flood.  That may well be the case. It may also be because people did not follow protocols and did rove as pack wolves and rape gangs and acted as pedophiles, bestiality, and wife stealers and fornicators with parents. 

The explanation other than mine (about Canaan) leaves unanswered why Noah cursed Canaan for what Ham did... 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Good point.

Did the curse take?

IMHO the only way a curse continues is by the teachings and actions that are passed down from generation to generation


So it is the

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

as can be seen today passed down from one to the next.  

Did it take?  I don't think we are told specifically, if we are please share, but I would go with yes.  
 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan
.
It might be of note that Canaan is NAMED though not yet born.  
 

Genesis 9:19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

Genesis 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

Genesis 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

Genesis 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Genesis 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Genesis 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
(doesn't just seem like "seeing", does it?   HOW could he have awoken and KNOWN he had been "looked at"?  

Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Genesis 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Genesis 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.




IT is hard for me to believe that "he saw his dad without clothes on" SO HIS DAD CURSED HIM.  It just seems WAY out of left field.  It doesn't make any sense in that context.  BUT with the different levels or measure of faith given, those who need to believe he SAW, do so, and continue in prayer and study and one day God will reveal 



 

Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

(Leviticus 20:11 AND THE MAN THAT LIETH WITH HIS FATHER'S WIFE HATH UNCOVERED HIS FATHER'S NAKEDNESS: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them).
 

Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Leviticus 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

Leviticus 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

Leviticus 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Leviticus 18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

 

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

The explanation other than mine (about Canaan) leaves unanswered why Noah cursed Canaan for what Ham did... 

Yes. I find that odd as well. The lectures I have listened to have no real explanation either. It makes some sense that Canaan was somehow involved else it's unrighteous to punish, or curse, a person for something they didn't do. 

I get the earth and mankind was cursed through Adam and that God visits the sin of the fathers on the sons for three or four generations, but that would not hold true for the righteous, imo, so Canaan must have done something. 

There are many vast gaps in the narrative, gaps of a dry, desolate wilderness. By design I assume. Don't know why. 

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan
.
It might be of note that Canaan is NAMED though not yet born. 

Genesis 9:19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

Genesis 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

Remember, Genesis is a narrative given by God to Moses so it's after the fact. It seems odd that Noah would have the insight to know a name of his grandson well before he was born. It's possible but I'm not sure. Since this was all after the flood Noah planted a vineyard only when the ground was ready after the waters abated, probably after many grandsons were born but certainly when grandsons were arriving.

Since Noah lived for 350 years after the flood this could work since we don't know an exact timeline. 

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Genesis 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

Genesis 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Genesis 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Genesis 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
(doesn't just seem like "seeing", does it?   HOW could he have awoken and KNOWN he had been "looked at"?  

Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Genesis 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Genesis 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

I guess what we know for sure here is: "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without."

So Ham was immature and tattled and spread gossip dishonoring his father. That's pretty bad. 

I wonder when Noah found out. 

"And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

Did this have to be immediate upon opening the eyes? Maybe Noah remembered he disrobed.  He was drinking and maybe it was a hot day. And he was in in private quarters so Noah could be in whatever state he wished. Maybe he had a naked room and a naked time in his routine. :) Just saying.

Maybe Noah got dressed and went out and asked Shem or Japheth who covered him up and why and that's when he found out.

So Ham violated Noah's privacy then spread ugly gossip. That's what we know for sure and it's bad enough.

But Canaan? So what said in the curse is that Canaan will be the servant of both Shem and Japheth. A perpetual condition? So today the land of Canaan is servant of both the Semitic people, Jews, and the rest of the world, Japheth's lineage?

"The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."

 

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IT is hard for me to believe that "he saw his dad without clothes on" SO HIS DAD CURSED HIM.  It just seems WAY out of left field.  It doesn't make any sense in that context. 

I'm with you here. It has to be more than just seeing him lay there in the nude.

I think the previous thoughts explain it based on what is written and not what isn't written.

 

 

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

(Leviticus 20:11 AND THE MAN THAT LIETH WITH HIS FATHER'S WIFE HATH UNCOVERED HIS FATHER'S NAKEDNESS: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them).
 

Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Leviticus 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

Leviticus 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

Leviticus 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Leviticus 18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

 

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
 

I don't believe Leviticus applies to Genesis. The Law wasn't given to Moses until many centuries after the flood. Noah and sons could not have know this since God hadn't said it yet.

A good thing I suppose since the prohibitions in Leviticus against knowing first cousins, sisters, brothers, nieces, nephews and aunts and uncles, would have ended population growth and we would not be here discussing this! :)

 

 

[Justin Adams]

On 8/9/2019 at 3:13 AM, other one said:

I have pondered this for years....   actually decades....    and I have no idea that makes sense.

 

The son of incestual activity. God had already blessed the people in the ark, so the curse was of the illegitimate offspring. Simple Tanakh euphemistic talk. Like when Ruth uncovered Boaz in a strange way to offer marriage. Same thing.

[Dennis1209]

On 8/8/2019 at 11:31 PM, ayin jade said:

Some take it to mean sinful acts against his father, but I think it is just a simple case of ham mocking his father when he approached his brothers. Especially since later on, the 10 commandments include honor your mother and father. Mocking dad isnt honorable. Perhaps it is appropriate that since the son mocked the father, that the son of the son is cursed. 

Hey there ayin jade,

I'm not going to be adamant about my notes below. But I think the Bible explains itself on this topic of what actually occurred. A key verse to deciphering all of it is Lev. 18:7. It all leads to maternal incest IMO. If you have the time or inclination, let me know where any misinterpretation lies? I'm always open to correct my views.

What did Noah’s younger son Ham do to Noah? There’s three popular theories: (1) Paternal Homosexual; (2) Castration; (3) Maternal incest. I have ruled out the first two.  Notice it’s repeated ‘twice’ for emphasis in Genesis 9:18 and 9:22.  Ham is the father of Canaan. Ham had incestual relations with Noah's wife and produced Canaan. Canaan is Noah’s incestual illegitimate half son.

(Genesis 9:18) And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

(Genesis 9:22)  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Their father's nakedness and the nakedness of thy father are what we call "idiom's. These 'idiom's' (customs)would have been well understood and adopted in ancient times to usurp headship and authority. Reading the following scripture explains exactly what their father's nakedness means. It's not Noah's nakedness, it's Noah's wife nakedness.

Ezekiel 22:10 (KJV) In thee have they discovered their fathers' nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution. 11. And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour's wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father's daughter. [Their fathers’ nakedness always is associated with sexual intercourse].

Leviticus 18:7 (KJV) The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8. The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 

This phrase is explicitly missing for homosexuality in Lev. 18:22-23.

Noah’s tent is his wife’s tent: Genesis 24:67 (KJV) And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death. [His tent is her tent]

In Genesis 19: 30-38 you have the same story; the two daughters of Lot getting Lot drunk and having incestuous relations.

Why did Ham proudly and boldly tell his brothers? Because that was how you usurped the family authority. Now in Ham’s eyes, he’s the head of the whole world.

Canaan was not Noah’s biological son; it was by incest. Now we see why Canaan was cursed. We now see why the Canaanites were such a thorn and enemy in Israel’s history.

Noah was roughly 600 years old when this incident occurred, he lived to be 950 years old. It’s interesting to note that in the following 350 years after this story, nothing more is said about the life of Noah, save for genealogies.

[Guest]

Quote

The Surprising Sin of Ham and Curse of Canaan

The sordid story of Ham is an enigma. Did God condone slavery? Why was Ham’s son cursed? What made the sin of Ham so heinous? 

Today I came across an interesting interpretation of scripture in Bible Study Magazine from Michael S. Heiser that brought to mind the importance of understanding the culture and times in which the Bible was written. There are some things in the scripture that we understand at a surface level. However, there are many things in the Bible that require an understanding of the culture or practices of the time in which the Bible was written if we want to truly understand what the Lord would have us learn. One of those passages is in Genesis 9 about Noah cursing his grandson for something that his own son did. Here’s the passage. 

“Noah began to be a man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, he said, ‘Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.’” (Genesis 9:20-25).

Now the traditional interpretation for many is that Noah’s son, Ham, saw his father naked and based upon the phrase that Noah, “Knew what his youngest son had done to him,” that Ham had some kind of homosexual encounter with his father while his father was passed out or drunk. Other commentators have said that Ham’s descendants, because of this, became the black Africans and thus their color was a curse to them. However, looking further into the scripture we can see that these interpretations have serious faults.

A Matter Of Idioms

Why would Noah curse his grandson (Canaan) for something that his son (Ham) did? The answer lies in the phrase that Ham, “Saw the nakedness of his father.” At our first modern reading we assume that saying has a plain meaning: Ham saw his dad naked. But there is evidence from the scripture to suggest that this is not what was meant at all. Consider these passages in Leviticus, also written by Moses.

“You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness” (Leviticus 18:7-8).

“If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death” (Leviticus 20:11).

Notice the usage of, “Uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother.” Moses uses the idiom, then he explains it right away so the meaning is not lost.

In both cases Moses was using an idiom to basically say, “Don’t have sex with your mother,” or “Don’t have sex with your father’s wife.” Being that the passages in Genesis and Leviticus were written by the same author (Moses), it may be said that in Genesis 9 Moses was using this idiom to say that Ham had a sexual encounter with his mother (or Noah’s wife, assuming that the woman in question was not Ham’s natural mother). Either way, this was an incestuous relationship. Interestingly, these idioms are never used in scripture to describe a homosexual relationship, thus, this can only mean sleeping with one’s mother, or sleeping with a father’s wife, voluntary or not. So, taking this idiom into account let’s look at Genesis 9 again, with a little interpretation.

““Noah began to be a man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father [slept with his mother] and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father [mother]. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father’s nakedness [mother]. When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him [slept with his wife], he said, ‘Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.’” (Genesis 9:20-25).

Notice that Ham went and told his brothers, Shem and Japheth, what he did to his mother. IE, he was telling them that she was “available.” Instead of taking advantage of her they covered her up.

So why the curse on Canaan? Because in this situation, if we are interpreting correctly, meant that Canaan was the illegitimate son of Ham and his mother. He therefore could not have a place of leadership in the family of Noah since we would have been an illegitimate son. 

Why Is This Important?

When reading the book of Genesis we tend to look at the book as a series of stories about beginnings: the beginning of the world, the beginning of man, the beginning of sin, the beginning of the Jews, etc. But in actuality, the book of Genesis is more than just an account of beginnings. It is a book written to ancient Israelites in defense of Moses’ leadership for the nation. Secondly, it begins to tell us the story of the coming of Jesus.

Consider that in scripture, Canaan is a type for sin. God gives the descendants of Canaan the land for a while, but ultimately the land is to go to the Israelites as a fulfillment of a promise made to Abraham. The picture here is one of Jesus coming to deal with sin. As the land was promised to Abraham’s offspring, it is actually promised to Jesus because he is the promised offspring (Romans 4:13, Galatians 3:19). Thus, Moses is showing two things in Genesis 9. First, the Israelites are the promised people who will take possession of the land from the Canaanite tribes, who are cursed from spiritual leadership. Second, the coming savior would also come and deal with sin, by wiping it out in the same way that Israel wiped out the Canaanites from the land. 

If Genesis 9 is interpreted as a homosexual act by Ham against his father, then the curse upon Canaan would be an injustice, being meted out for something his father had done. The scripture already says that, “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin” (Deuteronomy 24:16). Additionally, if the sin against Noah is a homosexual one, the story would tell us nothing of importance in terms of the types being illustrated about the promises of God for Israel and the coming Messiah. Remember that Genesis unfolds the story of a people needing a savior and finally a savior comes (Joseph), who is a type for Christ. Then Moses carries the story further into his own day as his own life becomes an illustration for the coming life of Christ.

Now, is this interpretation correct? I’m not saying I buy into this interpretation, but I do find it somewhat compelling. I confess that it is a hard one to accept because in our day we don’t use the idiom presented here. The issue is whether or not the Israelites would have understood the story in this way, being familiar with the idiom and its use elsewhere in the Pentateuch. Ultimately, it all gets down to the story of Jesus, since these early writings were given to us not only as ancient Israelite history, but as a precursor to the coming of Christ. Just as the Israelites destroyed the Canaanites from the land, so too, Jesus has dealt with the sin in our lives through his death on the cross. Just as Canaan was illegitimate and was given no family influence, so too, our sin is an illegitimate part of our lives and we must give it no influence in our lives for Christ.

Source: www.tomthinking.com

Dr. Michael S. Heiser makes the most sense of any other commentator on the Pentateuch to me.  Long post, I know. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Saved.One.by.Grace