7 YEAR TRIBULATION?

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

7 year tribulation is a misnomer for the 7 year 70th week, imo.

Mainly a product of them holding the pre-trib rapture view.    Actually what they are really implying is pre-70th week.     (The rapture could very well happen before the 70th week begins, so I don't want this to turn into a rapture debate thread).

Much of the first half of the 70th week, Israel and the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age.

Hi dougg

Yes I am familiar with most of the usual parameters of this view. I am not trying to do the pre trib debate here either, but it is sure to be referenced. As I said above to Marilyn, there is a lack of connection to tribulation directly in Dan. 9.

 

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Uriah,

Actually the seven years is related to Daniel`s prophecy, (Dan. 8: 27) which has to do with Israel. The tribulation, however is a month shorter and has to do with the Gentile nations.

`For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And if those days had not been shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect`s sake those days will be shortened.` (Matt. 24: 21 & 22)

....I...................................(7 years)..........................................I......> (Daniel`s final `week` seven years for Israel)

....I..................................(6yrs & 11 months)..................I.............>  (Tribulation for Gentile nations.)

Marilyn.

 

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

Oh, 9:27- And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yes I agree that this is the usual focus. But there is no direct correlation to "tribulation" in this verse.

Shalom, Marilyn and Uriah.

Actually, the 70th Seven of the 70 Sevens of Gavriy'eel's prophecy to Daniel has NOTHING TO DO with the "tribulation" (which is what I think you're saying, Uriah).

This is a common interpretation of Daniel 9:27 that is (1) faulty and (2) used as a link of contention between the Pre-trib, Post-trib, and Pre-wrath positions of premillennialism.

It's faulty because, while usually interpreted as the things that the "prince that shall come" does, these verbs are actually associated with the "messiah" of verse 26.

Also, the "tribulation" in Matthew 24 was experienced in the First Century A.D. by the children of Israel, particularly the children of Yhudah or the "Jews" of Jerusalem, including those who believed that Yeshua` was the Messiah of God. 

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Marilyn, 

What does the "I" represent on your timeline ?

Hi douggg,

The `I` on my timeline represents the beginning of the trib & the  70th week. They run at the same time till the end when the trib finishes a month earlier, (shortened). The last `I` is the end of the trib, and further on the end of the 7 years.

Marilyn. 

[Uriah]

I could be more detailed if needed, but one thing I have seen is people adding time references in Revelation to come to a 7 yr. period. However this doesn't work when you analyse the features of the seals, trumpets and vials. The numbers match with the trumpets and vials where you see for example #6 (could be wrong, like I said more detailed if needed) both pertain to "Euphrates". Another number will have both referring to darkness, another to the sea etc. So these two are repeated views of the same events. And the 7th of them all will say, "lightnings, thunder, voices, hail and quake. But the seals up to number six are more or less like an overview of the entirety. 

[Uriah]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Shalom, Marilyn and Uriah.

Actually, the 70th Seven of the 70 Sevens of Gavriy'eel's prophecy to Daniel has NOTHING TO DO with the "tribulation" (which is what I think you're saying, Uriah).

This is a common interpretation of Daniel 9:27 that is (1) faulty and (2) used as a link of contention between the Pre-trib, Post-trib, and Pre-wrath positions of premillennialism.

It's faulty because, while usually interpreted as the things that the "prince that shall come" does, these verbs are actually associated with the "messiah" of verse 26.

Also, the "tribulation" in Matthew 24 was experienced in the First Century A.D. by the children of Israel, particularly the children of Yhudah or the "Jews" of Jerusalem, including those who believed that Yeshua` was the Messiah of God. 

Hi Retro, (long time)

I am with you on the part about being associated with the Messiah in v. 26. I plan to go into more detail about that, you should like it (mostly). I think the tribulation is yet to come because of it being called so by an angel in Rev. 7. So it will/must include those events that are cataclysmic in nature from that book.

[douggg]

48 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

The `I` on my timeline represents the beginning of the trib & the  70th week. They run at the same time till the end when the trib finishes a month earlier, (shortened). The last `I` is the end of the trib, and further on the end of the 7 years.

Marilyn. 

When you say the "trib(ulation)" do you mean the 70th week?   Or do you mean the great tribulation that begins when the abomination of desolation is setup in the temple?

I am confused by the "I".

Edited August 16, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

26 minutes ago, douggg said:

When you say the "trib(ulation)" do you mean the 70th week?   Or do you mean the great tribulation that begins when the abomination of desolation is setup in the temple?

I am confused by the "I".

Hi douggg,

I see. Now I believe that the tribulation (with the great trib, half way) runs at the same time as Daniel`s 70th week but ends a month earlier. Two different purposes happening there, one for Israel (70th week) and one for the nations, (trib, with great trib.)

Marilyn.

[douggg]

42 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Hi Retro, (long time)

I am with you on the part about being associated with the Messiah in v. 26. I plan to go into more detail about that, you should like it (mostly). I think the tribulation is yet to come because of it being called so by an angel in Rev. 7. So it will/must include those events that are cataclysmic in nature from that book.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Uriah, great tribulation, not tribulation.

 

[douggg]

17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

I see. Now I believe that the tribulation (with the great trib, half way) runs at the same time as Daniel`s 70th week but ends a month earlier. Two different purposes happening there, one for Israel (70th week) and one for the nations, (trib, with great trib.)

Marilyn

What is your basis to think the tribulation and the great tribulation ends a "month" earlier than the end of the 70th week?    Why a month is what I am asking.

What are you calling the last month of the 70 weeks?

____________________________________________________________________

I don't see a need for the term "tribulation".   It seems to me to be a confusion factor, especially if you are defining it as being a month less than the 70th week (7 years).    

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by douggg

[Uriah]

1 minute ago, douggg said:

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Uriah, great tribulation, not tribulation.

 

Thanks dougg

True, however Matt. 24 says, - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Jesus goes on to list things we see in Revelation, like the sun darkened, moon not giving light and the powers of the heavens being shaken. So the angel in Rev 7 is talking about a time that those brothers and sisters went through that killed a significant part of the population of the planet. There are a number of tribulations in the bible but these two match as being the same one.