7 YEAR TRIBULATION?

[Justin Adams]

Tishri 1 seems to be the birth of Noah and Yeshua (second Noah if you like). "As in the days of Noah".

It is also the traditional date Israeli kings were inaugurated.

This is just a snippet of info. It may be relevant, however I cannot do the eschatology bit since not one of the systems seems to agree. Prophesy is generally seen in hindsight.

Revelations seems to be written on a spinning ball - part spiritual, part analogy and part physical. So it is even more real and not so nebulous as our various (failing) linear timelines.

Cyrus was 'anointed' for a specific task; so just because God anoints somebody does not mean they are His person, but are rather a tool for His purposes. So 'prince' could be anyone that God chose for a purpose.

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, douggg said:

You would have the 70 weeks fulfilled before the Jews, Jerusalem, say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord ?

Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

Hi dougg

Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy. 

None of the things prophesied here include the second coming of Jesus. But all are fulfilled in Him. Even the destruction of the temple is not required to be within the 70 weeks. The above items are.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Uriah

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have heard this before. Two things:

The person who is 'he' in v 27 has the direct antecedent of 'prince that will come'.

"Messiah" is named in previous verses and yet in v 27 Messiah is not named.

With that in mind I have a hard time with the 'he' in verse 27 identified as Jesus.

This also seems to make little sense when comparing Matt 24, "as spoken of by Daniel the prophet", to Dan 9 and 12.

Hi Diaste

Any thoughts on what I posted about the "alternating parallels"? Not every portion of scripture will fit into the standard rules of grammar we use today. But the literary methodology can be identified.

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

And, just to add another thought, Yeshua`s real birthday is probably around Sukkot or the Feast of Tabernacles, the eight days being the time between His birth and His circumcision and naming, when He came to tabernacle (to tent) with us, thus becoming "`Immaanuw-'Eel" or "Emmanuel" [Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23; John 1:14], "God with us." (Btw, this would put "Christmas" more around the time of His conception.)

I agree with the dating of Christmas you propose. 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hi dougg

Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy. 

None of the things prophesied here include the second coming of Jesus. But all are fulfilled in Him. Even the destruction of the temple is not required to be within the 70 weeks. The above items are.

"to anoint the most Holy"    Do you believe that Jesus is the most Holy Son of God ?   

Psalms 2

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

 

It seems to me, God speaking into the future in Psalms 2,  that part of the 70 weeks in not yet fulfilled.

 

 

 

[Uriah]

14 minutes ago, douggg said:

"to anoint the most Holy"    Do you believe that Jesus is the most Holy Son of God ?   

Psalms 2

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

 

It seems to me, God speaking into the future in Psalms 2,  that part of the 70 weeks in not yet fulfilled.

Acts 4:27- For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together

Acts 10- How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have heard this before. Two things:

The person who is 'he' in v 27 has the direct antecedent of 'prince that will come'.

"Messiah" is named in previous verses and yet in v 27 Messiah is not named.

With that in mind I have a hard time with the 'he' in verse 27 identified as Jesus.

This also seems to make little sense when comparing Matt 24, "as spoken of by Daniel the prophet", to Dan 9 and 12.

Shabbat shalom, Diaste.

1. No, the person who is "he" in verse 27 has the direct antecedent of "Messiah" in verse 26. "The prince that will come" is the OBJECT OF A PREPOSITION ("of") and does NOT have a part as the SUBJECT that performs the verbs of verse 27!

2. It makes WONDERFUL sense! What you don't understand is that the "abominations" of Matthew 23 give rise to the "desolation" of Matthew 23:38, and the "desolation" of Matthew 23:38 gives rise to the "abomination" of the Temple's destruction in Matthew 24!

Edited August 17, 2019 by Retrobyter
for clarification

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, douggg said:

"to anoint the most Holy"    Do you believe that Jesus is the most Holy Son of God ?   

Psalms 2

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

 

It seems to me, God speaking into the future in Psalms 2,  that part of the 70 weeks in not yet fulfilled.

Shabbat shalom, douggg.

The phrase "and to anoint the most Holy" is "v-limshoach qodesh qaadaashiym" in Hebrew, which literally translates to "and-to-anoint holy of-holies." It's the same phrase used in Exodus 26:33, 34 and especially in Ezekiel 45:3 for that Holiest of places in both the original Tabernacle and the Temple. Remember: Yeshua`s flesh was the VEIL between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies [Hebrews 10:19-20] through which we have access to the Holy of Holies, the presence of our Father.

Thus, this purpose for the seventy Sevens also suggests the anointing of the new Temple.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Retrobyter
to correct a spelling error

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Diaste

Any thoughts on what I posted about the "alternating parallels"? Not every portion of scripture will fit into the standard rules of grammar we use today. But the literary methodology can be identified.

I have no issue with literary devices properly applied. Psalms are by nature poetic and deeply romantic but I don't know if we can or should take the same approach with other scripture. It would seem a stretch to apply such devices to, lets say...Hebrews or Jude. I could be wrong as I'm pretty conservative and carry a literal and fundamental perception of scripture; except where it's obvious that view doesn't fit such as prophetic imagery or the Song of Solomon, for example.

[Uriah]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have no issue with literary devices properly applied. Psalms are by nature poetic and deeply romantic but I don't know if we can or should take the same approach with other scripture. It would seem a stretch to apply such devices to, lets say...Hebrews or Jude. I could be wrong as I'm pretty conservative and carry a literal and fundamental perception of scripture; except where it's obvious that view doesn't fit such as prophetic imagery or the Song of Solomon, for example.

Hi Diaste

I am also conservative about such things. In this case it actually does fit as anyone can see. We also see this kind of pattern in shorter form in the Proverbs which is also not "poetic or a song. They are often contrasting and comparative.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Uriah
spelling