Your closest friendnt Posted August 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) On 8/22/2019 at 2:28 AM, JohnD said: How many resurrected human beings are there in the third heaven? One. Jesus. Bodies were raised when he rose. They were seen in the holy city. Does the Bible say they ascended to heaven? Were they like Lazarus (for example) who was raised from the grave and who eventually died again? The Bible is actually silent on this point. The only biblically confirmed human resurrection / ascension to the third heaven is Jesus Christ (Mark 16:19, Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 10:12 Hebrews 12:2). Question; How many resurrected human beings are there in the third heaven? The biblical answer is none ever, and this is forever, it can never change.... Enoch, and who is Enoch; A descendant of Adam who lived before Noah...he was in the fallen inheritance as Adam was...if he was to physically die, he will descend, his spiritual self....not the physical house, his earthly body he lived in, which is appointed to dust.."from dust to dust", which cannot descend through the earth.... So we see Enoch having a fallen inheritance....and as long as he lived in his body cannot be taken to his descending inheritance...the one who claimed his right on him had to wait for him to die first....he could not take him alive, that's impossible to take a man alive to the world of the dead into the Earth.... So we see God took to him Enoch who did not have a Heavenly Inheritance....and that was made possible, because he took him before he died.... God had no right to take him after he died....he belong to somebody else...to the one who was in the Death inheritance and deceived Eve and gave to both Eve and Adam who were in Life...Death....from Life to Death... That what Man inherited from Adam the inheritance of Death... Adam, and Enoch as an example continue to be alive to God while they live....we can see God having interactions with them while they lived...and not only them, but with others from the seed of Adam to Shem, Adam's third Son... As opposed to Kain the first Son of Adam who at some time later in his life was cut off totally from God, because of what he did...so Kain and his seed were dead to God also while they lived...and could not be restored back to God....we see here the Gentiles before the flood... As opposed to the seed of Shem who were dead to God upon death only...unless they did something to get polluted not only what Kain did, but other things as worshiping other Gods... It was a natural thing for those who were cut off from God not only after death, but also in this life to turned to other spiritual powers not from God...man being not just physical but also spiritual to seek spiritual connection away from God.... So we see Enoch clean from any pollution, being alive to God while in this body and with the Adamic fallen inheritance "separation from God at death, descending to Hades", being taken by God before he died.... So Enoch is not qualified, for a positive yes to your question...because he does not meet the condition to e able to tell us what he show in the place of the dead because he never died and go there....and that is subject if he would be allowed to remember anything...as to protect his sanity...or it would be forbidden for him to remember..or to know... Simply he did not died and descend to the place of the dead....or to the specific place of his death inheritance...because we see that even at that time before Noah the world of the living was separated spiritually... It had the clean people from Shem and Shem to Adam and the people who were alienated from God...dead to God while they lived.... If the people who were alive to God were separated from the other people who were dead to God in this world, then they would be separated in the place of the dead.... They must be as to have the complaint and the hope.... The complaint as to why we are hear and not with our God...and the hope that we are separated from the others...Adam being with them and Eve who witnessed God giving them the promise that it has to be that way till the time the Savior, the Christ...with the Life in him....none other than the Creator who had the Life and gave life to Adam....will enter their world as the seed of the woman...and come to delivered them from there by giving them Life and take them to his Heavenly Inheritance... Those early people must have understood who the seed of the woman would be and that he must died first to go to them to delivered them out of the captivity of death and he must be in righteousness and in LIFE and also he must have a Heavenly Inheritance...to take them there to be with God, that's what they long for.... Enoch is not the one....he failed the first condition to have died first...he also was still in the death inheritance the descending one...there was not a Heavenly Inheritance for man that time, and that Heavenly Inheritance for man we understand came with the "author" of Life, the Life giver....Haven is his inheritance after his death...after he was judge after his death, after he was judge by the Heavenly Father.....the only one judged by the Heavenly Father....who find him in perfect obedience to him and in the Life....and he gave him the Heaven as his inheritance and the judgement of all the other people of the world, because he died for all.... He made him not only Lord of all, but also the Patriarch of Life....so those who believe in him, if and when they died in the Life.... BELIEVING in him at their death moment, they gather to him, their Patriarch.....so Jesus the Christ inherited haven not only for himself but as Patriarch of Life or everyone who dies in the Life....and as result for him dieing for their sins those in his Life also have his righteousness...if not they cannot have his Life...even though we are examined and judged according to our own doings....for some her reasons.....our righteousness will always failed us, but we still have his righteousness....and we have his Life.....even thought we are not in full obedience to him....no one is, so he can be the only one..... Unless God does not ask anything from us...then we are not in disobedience because he did not asked anything... Elijah is for similar reasons also not meeting the conditions even the first one to have died and gone to the place of the dead.... We see that God sent a chariot -provided transportation for Elijah-to take him to Heaven... Elijah if he had died he would have been gathered to his Patriarch Abraham, he would have descend to Sheol in the Abraham's bossom...to his Patriarch Abraham.... Elijah who lived under the Law still would have been gather in the bossom of Abraham, the inheritance of Abraham in the place of the dead, but set apart from the rest of the dead of the world. Only for Abraham and his seed the people of God without the Life but his people because he set them apart by cleansing them, by cleansing Abraham when he gave him righteousness and the circumcision for his seed...God also took Moses to Heaven before he died and he kept it a secret from them.... Moses had refused to the Patriarch of the people under the Law...that was from God..so the seed of Abraham before the Law and under the Law will all gather to him...and not split under to patriarchs... The same as in Jesus Christ...Abraham and his seed had to be gather first to Jesus Christ, the Patriarch of Life and then the rest of world, so they are gather to the same Patriarch...JESUS Christ..... Since that time when Abraham and his seed were gather to Jesus Christ there no separated Patriarchy in the name of Abraham... As Abraham and his seed alarm by John the Baptist welcome Jesus Christ, right after death...the first ones to received the Life.....and followed Jesus Christ their Patriarch of Life to his Heavenly Inheritance him in his body because he was raised from the dead and he took his body with the marks of the Cross..... Edited August 31, 2019 by Your closest friendnt Correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Frances Posted August 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 38 Topic Count: 365 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 8,700 Content Per Day: 3.91 Reputation: 10,045 Days Won: 64 Joined: 03/27/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2019 Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Hence the disembodied state (in the third heaven). Ephesians 4:8–10 (AV) 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) The inhabitants of Abraham's Bosom (disembodied) and Jesus (disembodied until the resurrection three days later) then he ascended a final time 40 days after that to the third heaven seated next to the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) On 8/26/2019 at 11:53 PM, Amanda Frances said: Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: The introduction... When Jesus was with his disciples and the other people who gather around him, this is what he was saying... He was calling God his Heavenly Father... He always made reference to the Heavenly Father.... He also said that's how you pray...Our Father who art in Heaven hallow be thy name... This context of this prayer was very controversial that time... Take notice that he was teaching this prayer to his disciples and not to the general Jewish people...Jesus had not died yet... The Jews was saying that Abraham is our Father.... And that time were right, they did have both the spiritual and the generic blessing of Abraham, and among other things when they died they were gathered to Abraham's Bossom...thus God separated them from the Gentiles not only while they lived, but also after they died.. keep in mind that they were other people who were not regarded as Gentiles...like Adam and Abel and others before the flood and after the flood...and before Abraham....we cannot say that they were mix with Kains or the Gentile seed in their death... That's how was the world before Jesus Christ death and glorification... This is what the author of Hebrews is telling us with the scripture of .... Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment... The author is telling that there has been a change...that things are not the same anymore.... to the people of that time, both Jews and Gentiles who lived at the time of the change to the new covenant....this sudden change that came to the world it was not easily understood... And this is what the author of Hebrews says who knew how the Heavenly Father honored JESUS CHRIST. That the Heavenly Father honor Jesus Christ and after his death on the Cross he gave him the Heavenly Throne and Heaven as his inheritance...and he made him Lord and the Judge of all...because he died for the sins of the whole world...both the living and those to come, and all the dead before him... That's why right after his death Jesus went to the place of the dead... He made sure that the people understood that he went alone there, when he said: Father, Father why you have forsaken me...that time Jesus experience to be alone without the fellowship of the Heavenly Father, his Father and the Holy Spirit... Jesus he descend first to Abraham and to his seed in the place of the dead - in the Bossom of Abraham....and Jesus had send first John the Baptist to announce his long waiting coming to them...the people in the Bossom of Abraham must have sang "bless is he who comes in the name of the Lord...Osana..Osana in the highest... That's why Jesus said Abraham knew about him and his mission and rejoice...Abraham knew that his Lord had another place for him and his seed the Heavenly Promish Land... -Abraham's Bossom was just a temporary transient place... Jesus also died for the lost sheep of Israel, both the living and those who had pass away... So Jesus destination was not limited to the Bossom of Abraham but he Jesus continue to bring the Gospel to all who had died before him...and anyone who beleived recieved the forgiveness of sins, the ETERNAL LIFE, and their Heavenly Inheritance... and a similar situation happened to the great one the Eosforous who sin and was kicked out of Heaven...who fall on the Earth..just like a comet .his new inheritance...the centre of the Earth ....the place of the dead.... Him the Comet and the rocks that followed him...(the comet with his tail), those Angels who supported him in his rebellion... This time it happened in the opposite direction... before from the place of Life and Light and as soon as they were in death, ejected out from the place of Life, unto their place of death, their new inheritance... and with Jesus those who believe in him in the place of the Dead...they were from death to LIFE...and Jesus as the Leader the first one, they were ejected out from the place of the dead to their new inheritance the Place of LIFE and LIGHT...the Heaven... And that what Jesus said the dead will hear his voice and pass from death to Life first, before the living.... We have in the story of Samson....that after going into the walled Gated city....He arose early in the morning...he took the Gates with its foundation upon his shoulders unto a hill .... We also have the events that took place with Paul in prison...in the city of Philippians....there was a great earthquake, and the prison cells were opened and the chains and irons fell off he prisoners hands and feet....but only Paul and his companions went out free, only those who believe in Jesus Christ... Jesus said I have the Keys of Hades and death...I open and not anyone close, I close and not anyone opens... This is what the Hebrews scripture says... God has made Jesus the Judge of all...every knee shall bow down before him.... It is appointed to every one to died and then be Judge by Jesus Christ... NOT EVERYONE WILL DIE AT THE SAME TIME...SO NOT ANYONE WILL BE JUDGED AT THE SAME TIME..... THAT WHAT HEBREWS SAYS...EVERYONE WILL APPEARED BEFORE JESUS CHRIST RIGHT AFTER HIS DEATH TO BE JUDGE ....every one in his own time...at the time of his death.... Peter made it clear that Jesus Christ died for all and he included the people before the flood..even those who died in the flood..that Jesus also went to them to give them the good news of the Gospel...and those who believed were saved given the forgiveness of sins, this is righteousness and the ETERNAL LIFE...became heirs of Heaven together with Jesus Christ..the redeemed bought with his blood... we hear the Gospel in this life and are saved... But they had to hear the GOSPEL out of the body and be saved.. Everyone saved the same way...by faith in Jesus Christ...in his death and resurrection...for righteousness, Justification and for the eternal Life... when they believed they pass from death to Life just like us.. PS Hebrews 9:27 does not applies to the dead at the time of Jesus death.... Those who were there and who heard the Gospel and did not believe.. They belong there.. they know that they have denied faith in Jesus...because they witnessed the departure of those who believed. PS Also we cannot say that Hebrews 9:27 applies the same way to those who have died without having heard of the Gospel...not having the reasonable opportunity to choose between LIFE DEATH... Everyone must be judge according to his having believe in the Gospel of LIFE.... They have died but they are not ready to appeared before Jesus Christ...to be Judged according to the Gospel... Jesus must have a way them to hear the Gospel and choose LIFE or DEATH, in some place while out of the body..... Then they are ready to appeared before him to be Judge...for Heaven or Hell, according to their faith.... Edited August 31, 2019 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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