Yeshua153 Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 83 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 Let's dive in the deep end, & start with definition. Pro'orizo is the greek, meaning pre-before, & 'orizo, where we get horizon from, as the ' is a breathing 'h' sound. The horizon is the division between light & darkness, which is God's boundary, within which are His adopted family. If you are in darkness you cannot see any horizon. Freewill is the power of acting without constraint of necessity or fate, & the ability to act at ones own discretion, as the worldly definition, the biblical one is voluntary or vowed offerings, & nothing else. Only those who God has chosen Jn15v16, are predestined, because they are in God's boundary, everyone else is ordained, as Rom 9v22-23 starkly puts it; "What if God, wanting to show His wrath & to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, & that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory." Back to v11 "for the children not yet being born, nor having done good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand..." & v13 "...Jacob have I loved, but Esau I have hated" So we do not have freewill, we have selfwill, as 2Pet2v10 says "They are presumptuous, self-willed" & v12 "But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught & destroyed speak evil of the things & they do not understand & will utterly perish in their own corruption." Yes we make choices according to our own selfwill, or of God's will, polar opposites, & the Lord's prayer does say 'Your will be done'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 A slave has no freedom of choice. A slave may decide to work/live well or badly but cannot leave being a slave. Christians are slaves of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Yeshua153 said: Let's dive in the deep end, & start with definition. Pro'orizo is the greek, meaning pre-before, & 'orizo, where we get horizon from, as the ' is a breathing 'h' sound. The horizon is the division between light & darkness, which is God's boundary, within which are His adopted family. If you are in darkness you cannot see any horizon. Freewill is the power of acting without constraint of necessity or fate, & the ability to act at ones own discretion, as the worldly definition, the biblical one is voluntary or vowed offerings, & nothing else. Only those who God has chosen Jn15v16, are predestined, because they are in God's boundary, everyone else is ordained, as Rom 9v22-23 starkly puts it; "What if God, wanting to show His wrath & to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, & that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory." Back to v11 "for the children not yet being born, nor having done good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand..." & v13 "...Jacob have I loved, but Esau I have hated" So we do not have freewill, we have selfwill, as 2Pet2v10 says "They are presumptuous, self-willed" & v12 "But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught & destroyed speak evil of the things & they do not understand & will utterly perish in their own corruption." Yes we make choices according to our own selfwill, or of God's will, polar opposites, & the Lord's prayer does say 'Your will be done'. Yes we have free will.. But God has foreknowledge of every free will decision we make, So from that foreknowledge He can pre-determine ( predestine ) who will eventually be conformed to the Image of Jesus and who shall be cast into the Eternal lake of Fire.. God has known the beginning and the End of all human history from the very beginning, He knew us thousands and thousands of years before we where born.. He foreknow each and every individual to the most minute detail as he was creating this world.. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Who me said: A slave has no freedom of choice. A slave may decide to work/live well or badly but cannot leave being a slave. Christians are slaves of Jesus. Christians are adopted Children of God and are not slaves.. Romans 8: KJV 14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. {15} For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 Romans 6:16'Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Yes we are adopted Sons, but we are more than just that. How we live shows who we have as a Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeshua153 Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 83 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Just now, Adstar said: Yes we have free will.. But God has foreknowledge of every free will decision we make, So from that foreknowledge He can pre-determine ( predestine ) who will eventually be conformed to the Image of Jesus and who shall be cast into the Eternal lake of Fire.. God has known the beginning and the End of all human history from the very beginning, He knew us thousands and thousands of years before we where born.. He foreknow each and every individual to the most minute detail as he was creating this world.. You cannot have it both ways, there cannot be predestination (fate),& freewill, because of the definitions, & freewill is only in the bible, relating to offerings, there is only selfwill, to fulfil self, apart from God, which if freewill existed in its worldly form, would also be living without the constraints of God, which is impossible, as God is in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) OH, prickly subject. Y'all duke it out and I'll hold the coats. I know Who wins you see... Edited August 22, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unworthyservant Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 96 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 645 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 298 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Yeshua153 said: You cannot have it both ways, there cannot be predestination (fate),& freewill, because of the definitions You talk a lot about some difference between free will and self will and I see them as one and the same. You seem to be bogged down in circular logic that is based on human definitions of words. As someone stated earlier, they can both be possible given the nature of God and His creation, namely man. I think it's good to remember when trying to think on such things the words of Christ in Matthew 19:26 and Mark 10:27 when he said, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned by Grace Posted August 22, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 350 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Adstar said: Yes we have free will.. But God has foreknowledge of every free will decision we make, So from that foreknowledge He can pre-determine ( predestine ) who will eventually be conformed to the Image of Jesus and who shall be cast into the Eternal lake of Fire.. God has known the beginning and the End of all human history from the very beginning, He knew us thousands and thousands of years before we where born.. He foreknow each and every individual to the most minute detail as he was creating this world.. LOVE THIS !! SPOT ON FOR ME Straight out of scripture . Edited August 22, 2019 by Seasoned by Grace 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted August 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,247 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,852 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2019 23 hours ago, Yeshua153 said: Only those who God has chosen Jn15v16, are predestined, because they are in God's boundary 23 hours ago, Yeshua153 said: So we do not have freewill, we have selfwill, as 2Pet2v10 says "They are presumptuous, self-willed" “Yeshua” is the Hebrew word for “Jesus.” The name means “to rescue, to save, or to deliver.” OK, No freewill. Ok, so Yeshua153, are you going to make it to heaven (however you believe) as by fire, or are you going to bring your sheaves with you (as scripture indicates)? And your crowns to lay before the Lord? Or your good works etc? Will the Lord say to you "Well done Yeshua153" ? If you answered yes to any of these, why? If we do not have any free will, then you couldn't choose to do the right thing (righteousness) We would never hear a "Well done" because we would not have the capacity. Oh, that's right, Not I but Christ in me. OK. So then a "Well done" really goes back to God, right? So why/how would God ever be angry at us, as is spoken in scripture. Why would there be scripture speaking of God being pleased with someone, or group of people. If it was not them who choose to do what is right? Or wrong? Seems to me the only way I can think of is we choose to do right or wrong. Does choosing sorta indicate a will to do right, or to do wrong? A free will????? actually choosing???? Explain how this works please, as I have never heard an explanation from those who say we have no free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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