Exalting Vileness

[ReneeIW]

7 hours ago, ayin jade said:

, but is hate proper for a Christian

Usually when someone says they hate a politician, or anyone they do not know personally, they are talking about the behavior, choices etc. of the person. Maybe hate is too strong a word without an explanation.

 

[lftc]

22 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Psalms 12:8 instructs us that the sons of men will exalt vileness. When I think of vileness, I think of homosexuality and abortion on demand. What about you?

I think what I consider to be vile is immaterial.  What does the LORD consider to be vile would be more important.  Also important would be what I am supposed to do with that once I spend my time considering the vile things of this earth.

Here is a common set of definitions to help one define what can be vile: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/vile.  Note that this site gives definitions from several other dictionaries, which is educational for all the defintion arguments on this forum.  Words can mean a broad range of concepts.

Note that the first definition from the Collins Dictionary uses the word "abomination".
Note that the last definition ftom the Collins Dictionary uses the word "paltry" which many do not understand now as it is a word more commonly used in the era of the original King James Version.

But I think it is safe to say that brother JohnTheBaptist intends the "abomination" sense.  One can simply look that up to see numerous references where the LORD says that things are an abomination to him.
- there are 142 uses of the word "abomination" in the KJV
- there are 8 in the NIV

One reference that is pertinent to forum life is Proverbs 6:16-19

In KJV:

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:.... and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Now in NIV:

There are six things the Lord hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:...
        and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

But how can I even post that without sowing discord? 
And how can I dare to post a scripture that seems to say that sowing discord is as bad as abortion?
If you knew me (which you never will on this earth), you would know that I FEEL strongly that abortion is terrible, while I have mild negative feelings about discord.  But I think I am supposed to try to use scripture to understand how the LORD feels about things, if that is possible. 

Leaving that branch topic aside, let me point out that a very common use of "abomination" in scripture refers to idolatry.  Which is hard to understand in our modern world where Satan cleverly hides inside intellectualism.  To define idolatry in terms of intellectualism, I think it is safe to say that idolatry is the intellectual process of looking for meaning, purpose, and mercy in anything other than the LORD, God Most High, Jesus the Christ.   Which I didn't realize I did not turn to him until the meaning and purpose of life is stripped away.   Difficult.

I think I qualify as vile.

[johnthebaptist]

2 hours ago, lftc said:

I think what I consider to be vile is immaterial.  What does the LORD consider to be vile would be more important.  Also important would be what I am supposed to do with that once I spend my time considering the vile things of this earth.

Here is a common set of definitions to help one define what can be vile: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/vile.  Note that this site gives definitions from several other dictionaries, which is educational for all the defintion arguments on this forum.  Words can mean a broad range of concepts.

Note that the first definition from the Collins Dictionary uses the word "abomination".
Note that the last definition ftom the Collins Dictionary uses the word "paltry" which many do not understand now as it is a word more commonly used in the era of the original King James Version.

But I think it is safe to say that brother JohnTheBaptist intends the "abomination" sense.  One can simply look that up to see numerous references where the LORD says that things are an abomination to him.
- there are 142 uses of the word "abomination" in the KJV
- there are 8 in the NIV

One reference that is pertinent to forum life is Proverbs 6:16-19

In KJV:

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:.... and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Now in NIV:

There are six things the Lord hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:...
        and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

But how can I even post that without sowing discord? 
And how can I dare to post a scripture that seems to say that sowing discord is as bad as abortion?
If you knew me (which you never will on this earth), you would know that I FEEL strongly that abortion is terrible, while I have mild negative feelings about discord.  But I think I am supposed to try to use scripture to understand how the LORD feels about things, if that is possible. 

Leaving that branch topic aside, let me point out that a very common use of "abomination" in scripture refers to idolatry.  Which is hard to understand in our modern world where Satan cleverly hides inside intellectualism.  To define idolatry in terms of intellectualism, I think it is safe to say that idolatry is the intellectual process of looking for meaning, purpose, and mercy in anything other than the LORD, God Most High, Jesus the Christ.   Which I didn't realize I did not turn to him until the meaning and purpose of life is stripped away.   Difficult.

I think I qualify as vile.

We would probably be well-advised not to exalt that which is vile. Here is a clue: 

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22 RSV

[johnthebaptist]

4 hours ago, lftc said:

I think what I consider to be vile is immaterial.  What does the LORD consider to be vile would be more important.  Also important would be what I am supposed to do with that once I spend my time considering the vile things of this earth.

Here is a common set of definitions to help one define what can be vile: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/vile.  Note that this site gives definitions from several other dictionaries, which is educational for all the defintion arguments on this forum.  Words can mean a broad range of concepts.

Note that the first definition from the Collins Dictionary uses the word "abomination".
Note that the last definition ftom the Collins Dictionary uses the word "paltry" which many do not understand now as it is a word more commonly used in the era of the original King James Version.

But I think it is safe to say that brother JohnTheBaptist intends the "abomination" sense.  One can simply look that up to see numerous references where the LORD says that things are an abomination to him.
- there are 142 uses of the word "abomination" in the KJV
- there are 8 in the NIV

One reference that is pertinent to forum life is Proverbs 6:16-19

In KJV:

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:.... and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Now in NIV:

There are six things the Lord hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:...
        and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

But how can I even post that without sowing discord? 
And how can I dare to post a scripture that seems to say that sowing discord is as bad as abortion?
If you knew me (which you never will on this earth), you would know that I FEEL strongly that abortion is terrible, while I have mild negative feelings about discord.  But I think I am supposed to try to use scripture to understand how the LORD feels about things, if that is possible. 

Leaving that branch topic aside, let me point out that a very common use of "abomination" in scripture refers to idolatry.  Which is hard to understand in our modern world where Satan cleverly hides inside intellectualism.  To define idolatry in terms of intellectualism, I think it is safe to say that idolatry is the intellectual process of looking for meaning, purpose, and mercy in anything other than the LORD, God Most High, Jesus the Christ.   Which I didn't realize I did not turn to him until the meaning and purpose of life is stripped away.   Difficult.

I think I qualify as vile.

If you were to choose to exalt something that is vile, and the Lord on judgment day asked why you did it, I don't know if he'd accept your explanation that "I think what I consider to be vile is immaterial." I think it best to read the Bible and find out what is vile.

[Blood Bought 1953]

14 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I ask this only because I am concerned for you spiritually, but is hate proper for a Christian? We are not to hate our enemies, as I think you view him as. We are to love our enemies. This is something every Christian should consider whenever faced with someone our worldly selves wish to hate.

 

Thank you for your Concern.My Spiritualality  is fine.It will stay that way as long as I get my eyes off of “ my” righteousness and keep my eyes on “ His” Righteousness.My Faith in THAT Saved me and keeps me Saved .....Few indeed are the times I can compare myself with God, but here is where God and I share something— we both hate a proud look and a “ lying tongue”.How about you? Trump is not a Believer in my opinion, so it is not up to me to be his judge.I am a worse sinner than him, but then I am not the Leader Of the Free World.I do not consider Trump an “ enemy”. I think  he is a disgusting liar ( what is the number of tracked , verified lies now by the Times? Over 10,000?..... If they are 90% wrong it would still be shameful).We, as Christians are not supposed to hate others. Christianity101.Our God is a God of love ,but we must never forget he has the capacity to hate.I notice that where God lists the seven things He hates, He does  NOT say He hates the person most of the time....He hates “ the feet” of those that run to sin and mischief, say , the feet of a man- boy like Trump that runs to cohort with prostitutes and porn stars.

Trump disgusts me and if that sends me to Hell, there is nothing I can do about it.The Truth is, like the Bible Commands and God does in His list of  “The Seven   THINGS ( not people) that God hates, I hate  the sins and not the Sinner.Trump makes it VERY hard not to cross the line.BTW.....did I forget to mention the fact that I am not really fond of the man? Lol.....

Edited September 9, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[lftc]

16 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

If you were to choose to exalt something that is vile, and the Lord on judgment day asked why you did it, I don't know if he'd accept your explanation that "I think what I consider to be vile is immaterial." I think it best to read the Bible and find out what is vile.

Dear brother johnthebaptist,

As you have quoted my response to your original post twice, I assume that you are needing some reponse from me.

I thought I was looking at the Bible in my response.  My apologies if I did not make that clear.

I do appreciate your concern for the destiny of my eternal existence.  I take that as a sign of your love.  Thank you.

[johnthebaptist]

9 minutes ago, lftc said:

Dear brother johnthebaptist,

As you have quoted my response to your original post twice, I assume that you are needing some reponse from me.

I thought I was looking at the Bible in my response.  My apologies if I did not make that clear.

I do appreciate your concern for the destiny of my eternal existence.  I take that as a sign of your love.  Thank you.

No, I wasn't looking for a response. I just thought of something extra I wanted to say.

[unworthyservant]

23 hours ago, JohnD said:

And repent is not mentioned in:

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You mention where repent is NOT mentioned so here's a few instances where it IS mentioned by Christ as well as John the Baptist and Peter, just to put things into proper perspective. A statement pointing out where a word does not appear could leave one with the impression that there is something behind it's absence and that would be pure speculation without context. I'm not sure the logic behind drawing conclusions from references where a certain word is absent since it's absence could be attributed to various circumstances, so only when a word IS used can you have any context from which to draw conclusions.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

50 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

You mention where repent is NOT mentioned so here's a few instances where it IS mentioned by Christ as well as John the Baptist and Peter, just to put things into proper perspective. A statement pointing out where a word does not appear could leave one with the impression that there is something behind it's absence and that would be pure speculation without context. I'm not sure the logic behind drawing conclusions from references where a certain word is absent since it's absence could be attributed to various circumstances, so only when a word IS used can you have any context from which to draw conclusions.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

 

Please note that neither Jesus nor John says to “ Repent of Sins” to be saved.Dont waste time looking - it ain’t in there.Not in the KJV. 

Try this: translate the word “ repent” as “ Turn to God” when John and Jesus say it. “ Why would John and Jesus waste their time preaching “ quit your sinning” to the crowds. It’s a great thing to do and God desires it but it ain’t gonna save ANYBODY! Show some insight. Nobody can stop sinning as long as they are in a Body Of flesh. 

Now, imagine this scenario.What If when Jesus said “Repent” He was saying “Turn to God”. Now that is not only something that is pleasing to God, it is being told something that will actually be the first step in getting you saved.True Repentance. “ Turn to me and I will turn to you”. Now THAT will get you saved! Why would Jesus and John preach something that was not going to get the job done.Most Of these people probably lived lives where they would never hear anything beyond that.It was enough.Turn to God. Repent.  “Turn to God with faith in Jesus Christ”

We KNOW at least one guy who was “ justified” or saved in the Bible .Jesus said so.The Publican who cried out as he TURNED TO GOD, “ Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner”.THAT is the repentance God is looking for .Despite all the rules, Commandments,demands, orders , obedience ,fear- ALL of that stuff crammed into the Old Testament .....all God was ever looking for was a Contrite Heart.One That  He could work with.A contrite heart is a repentant heart .God is still on the look-out for them.There will be NOBODY in Heaven with a heart that has not been made contrite. Get one now! Turn to God as the Lost Sinner that you are if you have not already done so.It worked for the Publican and it worked for me.It will work for you.Guaranteed.God Bless...

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

You mention where repent is NOT mentioned so here's a few instances where it IS mentioned by Christ as well as John the Baptist and Peter, just to put things into proper perspective. A statement pointing out where a word does not appear could leave one with the impression that there is something behind it's absence and that would be pure speculation without context. I'm not sure the logic behind drawing conclusions from references where a certain word is absent since it's absence could be attributed to various circumstances, so only when a word IS used can you have any context from which to draw conclusions.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

Repent from?