missmuffet Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ReneeIW said: Oh wow, I have never heard anyone say that before. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I wonder if many believe that is meant for elders and not pastors. My duaghter's piano teacher is a pastors wife with a degree in theology and a friend of mine, and she quotes Titus as instructions for pastors. I always believed the fish rots from the head, but I guess that is in the secular world, not in the Church? I can see your side as far as the church should be built on a solid foundation, which is God's Word; but I'm still thinking Titus was meant for all leaders in the church. I wonder what others think. The Bible tells us that women are not to be Pastors. Although women can teach in the Church such as Sunday School or Bible studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, missmuffet said: The Bible tells us that women are not to be Pastors. Although women can teach in the Church such as Sunday School or Bible studies. No, I said she is a Pastor's wife. Her and I have had conversations about her husband and his duty and desire to remain above reproach and they quote Titus as their argument for pastors living above reproach. I'm wondering why Elders should be above reproach but not the Pastor? Edited September 25, 2019 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 953 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,589 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,057 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Online Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ReneeIW said: why Elders should be above reproach but not the Pastor? Perhaps because a pastor is an elder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovethelord Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 667 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2019 Renee, This Pastor like all of us will be accountable to God. The Bible tells us that the more one knows, the greater his or her responsibility. A Pastor should not teach God’s Word “Truth” while living a “Lie”. He choose his life of ministry (I don’t think it was forced on him). He can’t divorce his work from his life, since he is to model Christ for his congregation. I know the verse below doesn’t apply specifically to pastors, but it made me recall that only Jesus will be able to judge the rightness of someone’s heart. Matthew 7:21-22, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted September 25, 2019 On 9/23/2019 at 7:23 AM, ReneeIW said: The Christian pastor travels and visits the young girl and threatens her life if she tells anyone about the affair. The young girl reports the threat to the church. Is sorry enough or should the pastor step down for committing the crime of threatening someone’s life? Yes, he should. This is a serious felony and punishable by law. There are some well known cases in the 1980's like Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. Swaggart's was sexual, Bakker's was both a sexual situation, with the inclusion of a cover-up over financial misspending of funds. Neither stepped down, but they should have. Bakker did spend time in prison following a lengthy court hearing, however. It took the wind out of his sails temporarily, but he's back at the helm again and going strong. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, lovethelord said: A Pastor should not teach God’s Word “Truth” while living a “Lie”. He choose his life of ministry (I don’t think it was forced on him). Amen! He is very well loved and people have put him on a major pedestal. He is probably just known in New York, Chicago, DC and Iowa, but he is very powerful and admired, I'm sure that made him believe he could say or do anything. Some people worship church leaders and the pride that comes from that is dangerous. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: but he's back at the helm again and going strong. I thought i saw him on some channel talking about the faith! Baker that is. We deserve better church leaders, but i dont want to be judgmental. He did his time in jail. Hopefully he has repented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted September 25, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 hours ago, ReneeIW said: Hopefully he has repented. Jim Bakker never did repent, nor did he admit to any wrong doing. Jimmy Swaggart wept what surely seemed like genuine repentant tears, while the television cameras rolled on. If it wasn't genuine, he put on an Oscar performance. Looked pretty real to me. The Assemblies of God asked him to step down for a reasonable time period, and get some prayer and counseling. He didn't go for it, of course. That's televangelism for the both of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted September 26, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 47 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: Jim Bakker never did repent, nor did he admit to any wrong doing. Jimmy Swaggart wept what surely seemed like genuine repentant tears, while the television cameras rolled on. If it wasn't genuine, he put on an Oscar performance. Looked pretty real to me. The Assemblies of God asked him to step down for a reasonable time period, and get some prayer and counseling. He didn't go for it, of course. That's televangelism for the both of them. Really a shame. I just briefly looked up Jimmy Swaggart and saw how much of a following he had, and I guess that’s all that matters. I wonder when the church body becomes responsible for what it’s leaders do? Swaggart would have been gone in a heartbeat had people turned off their television sets after hearing of his sins. And I would love someone to find a man who doesn’t cry when he gets caught with other women. They all have that down pat. i think it’s really harmful to the Church because it sends a message to other Christian men that you can do the same thing and suffer no consequences. There’s a really good book called “Precious Remedies Against Satan’s Devices” by Thomas Brooks. In the book, he talks about how Satan convinces men that the story of King David, a man after God’s own heart, is a story of a man who was able to have his cake and eat it too. If King David, who was praised for being devoted to God, cheated, then how can God expect anything different from them? That is their rationalization. They use the example of David to justify cheating instead of using it as a warning to abstain from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted September 26, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ReneeIW said: Really a shame. I just briefly looked up Jimmy Swaggart and saw how much of a following he had, and I guess that’s all that matters. I wonder when the church body becomes responsible for what it’s leaders do? Swaggart would have been gone in a heartbeat had people turned off their television sets after hearing of his sins. And I would love someone to find a man who doesn’t cry when he gets caught with other women. They all have that down pat. i think it’s really harmful to the Church because it sends a message to other Christian men that you can do the same thing and suffer no consequences. There’s a really good book called “Precious Remedies Against Satan’s Devices” by Thomas Brooks. In the book, he talks about how Satan convinces men that the story of King David, a man after God’s own heart, is a story of a man who was able to have his cake and eat it too. If King David, who was praised for being devoted to God, cheated, then how can God expect anything different from them? That is their rationalization. They use the example of David to justify cheating instead of using it as a warning to abstain from it. Of course, with David as you know, he suffered immensely---his first born son was taken from him and the sword never left his house. It may be surprising that all churches are not like that. In ours, for example, a man who openly confessed his love for a married woman and would not repent, was eventually asked to leave---to be handed over to Satan in the hope he might see the desperate fall he was about to incur. Six years later, he came back a new man, sharing how he was a sitting duck in the hands of the Devil and the circumstances he went through because of him. The married woman forgave him for his advances toward her, and now is a productive member of the church. People can recover, and people can learn that the price is not worth it. You have shared your heart, sister, and I pray that the Holy Spirit relinquishes you of any pain you may be carrying. Edited September 26, 2019 by Coliseum 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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