GreyJay Posted October 1, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, lftc said: So when some respond with absolute refusal to consider anything related to Idolatry, I use the last definition and say "TRUE TRUE" while I shudder at the thoughts of the consequences of such Idolatry. Using the last definition of Idolatry and looking at the spread of Western society, I see the current major threat to civilization as Intellectualism. Wow, that is incredibly articulate. I understand what you mean. Protecting the integrity of others' consciences is an important consideration for a Christian, i.e., 1 Cor 10:27-30, and particularly v32. You are right about intellectualism; faith in one's self to save can easily replace faith in God to save. And freedom from that superstition is having the humility to accept that we are as powerless to save ourselves as an inert piece of carved wood or stone could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJay Posted October 1, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, lovethelord said: Hi GreyJay, Since Naaman was just at the very beginning stage of understanding small portions of God’s truth. He understood enough to know that bowing down before an idol was wrong. When Elisha said go in peace to Naaman, I think he was leaving it up to God and Naaman. We know that God in His Word is clear on compromising and worshiping at their alters (even if it is only outwards compromise and not an inward compromise). I don’t think I would be loving if I didn’t share this important fact to the new believer. There are ways to minister to someone without insulting or judging them. I would just be sharing God's truth and point them to the verses. But again, it would have to be done gently and lovingly. Yes, there is that to factor in as well. The Acts church also didn't want to burden the new Gentile Christians with too many rules, but it seems like the implication was that they would voluntarily continue to be transformed in other ways as their faith matured. Thanks, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJay Posted October 1, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Hello GreyJay, If I'm understanding the story of Naaman correctly and what you're topic is suggesting, I believe this is something comparable possibly? I do not pray to the mother of Jesus or saints for intercession. I don't confess my sins to a priest and ask forgiveness and repentance. I don't call a leader of a religion holy father, etc. I don't believe in last rites or purgatory, at your last heartbeat your destiny is sealed for all eternity, you get the point. On a couple of occasions upon the death of a sibling and close friend, I've attended Catholic services for funerals. We know why we attend services of loved ones of different belief's and faiths. We do it out of love, respect for the family and final goodbyes of the deceased, and share memories, pain and sorrow, lifting one another up. Personally speaking, I don't attend to take part of any ritual performed or their belief's. I pray to the one living Father, through the only mediator between us and our Father, our advocate and Lord and Savior who died on the Cross for our sins, our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe Naaman was sincere and between a rock and a hard place. What benefit might have derived from Naaman standing and speaking his new belief? The man of God Elisha did not condemn or rebuke Naaman, but to go in peace. Just my thoughts... Yeah, I see the correlation there. I think the idea that Christians are the temples of the living God is incredibly profound: wherever we go, we bring God (Not that God needs us to bring Him anywhere, but is an honour to be allowed to serve as His hands and feet when he doesn't need us to do anything at all for Him). We are freed from so much as we understand the implications of that more and more deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 1, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,138 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2019 19 hours ago, GreyJay said: But how to we get to place in our lives where we can be like Elisha where we would know to say "go in peace," seeing past the superstition, knowing that it has no real power (1 Cor 8:4-6, Jeremiah 10:5), and catching a glimpse of the heart of a person as seen through God's eyes? I would only say that the superstition does have real power, but not as strong as our Lords... god does see things through our hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted October 1, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,475 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,381 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2019 It would be interesting to read how, where and by whom thousands of superstitions began. From the ancient ones to modern day black cats, stepping on a crack, walking under a ladder, banana's on a boat and the thousands of other wives tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lftc Posted October 2, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 323 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2019 18 hours ago, GreyJay said: You are right about intellectualism; faith in one's self to save can easily replace faith in God to save. And freedom from that superstition is having the humility to accept that we are as powerless to save ourselves as an inert piece of carved wood or stone could be. Thanks for the compliment. I fear that often I do not express my thoughts very well. In turn, your description of intellectualism is excellent. Especially the line "humility to accept that we are as powerless ..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted October 2, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) We are sinners. In Daniel 9:9, we read, "The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against Him." Also, Eph 6:5-8 says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free." Note: "doing the will of God from your heart." God does not want merely outward compliance, but He wants our hearts. That is why we read we are to love Him with heart, soul, mind, and strength, and in the NT, even more so. God knows our circumstances. 1 Sam 16:7b says "The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but The LORD looks at the heart." Edited October 2, 2019 by Coliseum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceMalin Posted October 2, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 105 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/05/1968 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) On 10/1/2019 at 12:11 AM, GreyJay said: I feel like that takes a lifetime to learn how to do! But I guess that's kind of the point... to ever press on toward the goal, the upward calling of Jesus. I think we overthink Christianity. All of the Bible stories show a very simple faith. The apostles spent their lives teaching the simple message of salvation. Paul's epistles were sent to church leadership not much different than admonishments within the Catholic church over the centuries. I think we look at "the law" as philosophy rather than law. In Joshua 1:8, "This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success." I don't think "meditate" means to try to peel layers from God's word like me might when reviewing The Catcher in the Rye in an English class. A Jewish friend of mine suggested the reason that so many Jews he knew became lawyers is because they study the Torah in the same way that one would study American law. We often over apply meaning. My buddy, Diddy, went to what he referred to as "Jewish school" to learn clarity, simplicity, and application of scripture. For example, some Christians worry about celebrating Halloween. Our Halloween is 3 times removed from its pagan roots. No one even knows who or what pagan gods were involved in the holiday in ancient Britain. Most Americans don't even know it was Pope Gregory IV who moved All Saints Day to November 1 in the 9th century A.D. No one is being worshipped on Halloween in America. It has become a folklore holiday not a religious one. If a Christian delves into the history and believes that he or she shouldn't partake, then that is simply one's belief based upon knowledge. You've in a sense eaten from the tree of knowledge and are now responsible for that knowledge. Another Christian might look at the history of Halloween and not find anything even remotely connecting their love of early American folklore, scary stories, and trick-or-treating with paganism. Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. The sherpas on Everest want to pray for you before a climb. Do you let them, as a Christian, or do you refuse? On one hand, you show love toward another for the beauty in his heart and portray Christ's love toward all. On the other, there is the law. Which law becomes the best way to witness for Jesus? Only each person may determine that as the Holy Spirit moves us. Edited October 2, 2019 by TraceMalin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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