What Noah Could Have Said But Didn't

[Guest shiloh357]

OK Kansasdad!! Here ya go!! This is what Fisher Of Men is saying:

Dear reader, do not allow yourself to be robbed of being accounted worthy of that life and the resurrection by the many false teachers who have departed from the faith and who would like you to also be persuaded that your ultimate salvation is not determined by what you do (your works).

(from the OP on this thread)

What we do as Christians will determine where we go forever.

(from post #71 on this thread)

QUOTE(Fisher of Men @ Jun 23 2005, 11:43 PM)

    James made it very clear that without works, a person will not be saved.  See James 2:14-26.  Nothing that Paul wrote contradicts this.  Paul was simply emphasising and encouraging the acknowledgement that the Christians works are not of themselves, lest they should boast.

    Many who confess faith in Jesus are under the delusion that their works (what they do ) has nothing to do with whether or not they will be saved. (1) 

    (1)  By

[Ovedya]

Maybe this doesn't matter too much...but has anyone asked FoM if he's Catholic?

[Kabowd]

Matthew 7:15

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."

[Ovedya]

[Fisher of Men]

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I think some on this thread are marvelling when they ought not to be. The wages of sin is still death. Because you have accepted Jesus, this law has not changed. In fact because of it Jesus' death was necessary. He hasn't thrown out the law that the wages of sin is death as many in effect presume. He came rather to grant us grace or strength so that we can not be on the wrong side of that law at judgment.

Acts 3:

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

This is his purpose in dying for us and rising again. This is the blessing and freedom that the NT is all about: turning us from our iniquity. Why?

Because the wages of sin is death!

He doesn't want us to die, so he died to take our place for what we deserved and then by that death we could receive His Spirit, the resurrected Christ living in us over whom sin has no dominion. Do we have the faith to believe that, and to walk in that Spirit and so not fulfil the lust of the flesh and so escape the wages of sin?

Or will we receive a bastardized demonic doctrine denying the very purpose for his coming and separate faith from works and works from salvation?

The quickening enabling power from God to change our behaviour is the definition of grace as found in Eph. 2:5 (1-3).

There are some among you trying to maintain the very unbiblical restricted undefined definition that grace means unmerited favour only and the definition of that relieves the believer of the fear of God concerning what he does so that the quotation from John 5 above has to be weedled out of.

Is it not true that all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation?

Is it not true that we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works so that we will be on the right side of that resurrection?

In Matt. 25 those found worthy of eternity did so on account of what they did as in Heb. 11 concerning faith, what we see there is what people did because of their faith.

We see in that chapter how Noah condemned the world. The modern day Noahs faithfully working out their own salvation by yielding to God to will and to do of His good pleasure will warn others and in effect also condemn the world by those warnings for their words will come to pass in the end.

Those on this thread fighting against the truth will be ashamed in the end when they find that Paul wasn't speaking against works for salvation in Eph. 2. He was speaking against boasting of good works as if they are of ourselves.

The truth is that the good works a Christian does are not of themselves but of Him who has called them and works in them, for they are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Their good works are not their own workmanship.

The righteousness we see manifested in the lives of the Ephesians (2:1-3) was not of themselves lest they should boast. It was of Him.

1 Cor. 1:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

There are some on this thread incapable of grasping this concept.

Numerous times Paul reiterates this thought concerning it being God that we give credit for for the good we do. For it is he who is responsible for it!

That's what Eph. 2:1-10 is all about. He is not casting out works in their connection with salvation, He is putting works in their proper perspective as that which He is ultimately doing in our lives for we are his workmanship.

The measure of our abiding in Him and being in the faith is reflected in how much of an overcomer we are.

If we are not abiding in him as the branch must abide in the vine, then we will be burnt. Abiding in Him cannot be separated from what we do, (think, say and behave).

Hence, we are saved in the end for abiding in Him who keeps us from sin so we won't receive those wages.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Fisher of Men

[Guest shiloh357]

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I think some on this thread are marvelling when they ought not to be. The wages of sin is still death. Because you have accepted Jesus, this law has not changed. In fact because of it Jesus' death was necessary. He hasn't thrown out the law that the wages of sin is death as many in effect presume. He came rather to grant us grace or strength so that we can not be on the wrong side of that law at judgment.

Paul says, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). From Romans 1:1 to 5:11, Paul is discussing SINS. From Romans 5:12 to 8:39, Paul is dicussing SIN. SINS are what we do. SIN (when used in the singular in Romans) is what we have been delivered from. We have been delivered from the power or control of sin.

Each of us is born under the law, and a servant of sin. Each of us is born into Adam's race. All of us deserve to death. However, through Christ, God offers us the GIFT of eternal life. Because it is a gift, it is not something we have to work at being worthy to receive. If we have to be worthy of it by effort, then it ceases to be a gift, but a reward for service. As for the above passage from John, "those who have done good" are those whose works were the outgrowth of the principles of grace implanted in them. They are not resurrected to life because they do good things, but their righteous works were the external manifestation of the eternal life already gifted to them by the grace of God.

Acts 3:

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

This is his purpose in dying for us and rising again. This is the blessing and freedom that the NT is all about: turning us from our iniquity. Why?

Because the wages of sin is death!

He doesn't want us to die, so he died to take our place for what we deserved and then by that death we could receive His Spirit, the resurrected Christ living in us over whom sin has no dominion. Do we have the faith to believe that, and to walk in that Spirit and so not fulfil the lust of the flesh and so escape the wages of sin?

Or will we receive a bastardized demonic doctrine denying the very purpose for his coming and separate faith from works and works from salvation?

Yes, Christ was sent to turn from iniquity. Your problem is that you have an incorrect understanding of just how he does that. Your flawed logic is that Jesus died to give us grace in order to perform the works necessary to earn salvation and somehow be worthy of eternal life. There is where the doctrine of demons is to be found.

Jesus died to pay the penaly of sin. The wages or penalty of is death, and Jesus payed that penalty. Jesus went to the cross and satisfied God's justice. The death we deserved, he took upon Himself, and now offers to render innocent, anyone who will simply accept Him and the sufficiency of work upon on the cross.

The quickening enabling power from God to change our behaviour is the definition of grace as found in Eph. 2:5 (1-3).

Wrong. Quickening is not the definition of grace, but rather is the expression or result of God's grace. Because of grace we are made alive in Christ. He is not defining grace at all. In fact there, there are scholars who render the verse this way: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by whose grace ye are saved; (Ephesians 2:5)

There are some among you trying to maintain the very unbiblical restricted undefined definition that grace means unmerited favour only and the definition of that relieves the believer of the fear of God concerning what he does so that the quotation from John 5 above has to be weedled out of.

That has been continuously, on this thread and others proven time and again, not to be the case. You just simply ignore all of that, otherwise you don't have a canard.

Is it not true that we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works so that we will be on the right side of that resurrection?

No. We are created for good works so that our lives will be a living testimony of his grace, and serve to lead others to Christ. That is the ONLY purpose our works serve. YOU are manufacturing this shallow, demonic doctrine that says good works are for the purpose of making us worthy to inherit eternal life.

[nebula]

I think some on this thread are marvelling when they ought not to be. The wages of sin is still death. Because you have accepted Jesus, this law has not changed. In fact because of it Jesus' death was necessary. He hasn't thrown out the law that the wages of sin is death as many in effect presume. He came rather to grant us grace or strength so that we can not be on the wrong side of that law at judgment.   

 

Acts 3: 

25  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 

26  Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. 

 

This is his purpose in dying for us and rising again. This is the blessing and freedom that the NT is all about: turning us from our iniquity. Why? 

Because the wages of sin is death! 

He doesn't want us to die, so he died to take our place for what we deserved and then by that death we could receive His Spirit, the resurrected Christ living in us over whom sin has no dominion. Do we have the faith to believe that, and to walk in that Spirit and so not fulfil the lust of the flesh and so escape the wages of sin? 

Or will we receive a bastardized demonic doctrine denying the very purpose for his coming and separate faith from works and works from salvation? 

 

Are you saying that true salvation = instant perfection?

Boy, I wish that were the case. Then I might not have this continual struggle with depression.

Then again, by what it sounds like you are saying, I am in big trouble because I still struggle with this sin.

[Goldpearl]

I just always have believed that works were a product or byproduct of our salvation--that as believers we would choose to serve the Lord and do His good works; and that our lives would reflect the fruit of the Spirit.

Goldpearl

[Guest shiloh357]

I think some on this thread are marvelling when they ought not to be. The wages of sin is still death. Because you have accepted Jesus, this law has not changed. In fact because of it Jesus' death was necessary. He hasn't thrown out the law that the wages of sin is death as many in effect presume. He came rather to grant us grace or strength so that we can not be on the wrong side of that law at judgment.

[Kabowd]

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.." ~ Romans 6:23

Fisher, why do you and your friends do such violence to the Word of God by lacerating it and removing it's redemptive message?

Cling to the wages of death if you must, but don't spread your evil message on these boards. The rest of us choose to walk in the grace of God and cling to the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.