Firm Foundation Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Sower said: "Whosoever 'abideth' in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jn, "I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rm 7,25 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 Jn: 1, 10 And I just gave you scripture that says Christians don't sin. You can't act like that doesn't exist. The scriptures you gave are both about how it was before getting saved, all past tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 195 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.50 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: And I just gave you scripture that says Christians don't sin. You can't act like that doesn't exist. The scriptures you gave are both about how it was before getting saved, all past tense. Are you saying that you don't sin? I am pretty sure that Paul, in that section of Rom. 7, is speaking in the present tense. My friend--if you believe that you never sin, then one day you are going to see differently. I fellowshipped for a few years with folks who held to the belief that 'sinless perfection' was attainable while still in these old bodies. There were all kinds of ways that they had convinced themselves it was true. The depth of this delusion and the blindness to their own shortcomings was an astounding thing to watch. I don't wish to 'prove' you wrong. Please believe that. I would however try to convince you to admit that you might be wrong on this point and to reconsider. Edited October 7, 2019 by Alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,267 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,884 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said: And I just gave you scripture that says Christians don't sin. You can't act like that doesn't exist. The scriptures you gave are both about how it was before getting saved, all past tense. Surely thou jest, Firm. Have you ever committed ONE sin? "Whosoever 'abideth' in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jn, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 Jn: 1, 10 1 John 1 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: My grand children understand this Firm, as do I. I do not know how God could make it any plainer. I sin. I confess. God forgives. Jesus paid the price. I hate sin. So don't start with me, OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Tampered With said: John 14:15 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 “If you love Me, [a]keep My commandments. Matthew 5:17-20 Amplified Bible (AMP) 17 “Do not think that I came to do away with or undo the [a]Law [of Moses] or the [writings of the] Prophets; I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law until all things [which it foreshadows] are accomplished. 19 Hi TW, and appreciate your replies and input! Christ fulfilling (completing; finishing) the Law about Himself was so that believers can enter what God has for them next--i.e. This passage shows there is a time when the Law will cease--until all is fulfilled--and Jesus came and fulfilled it ("it is finished"). The first Covenant had to be fulfilled before taking it away in order to establish the second covenant (Heb 10:9; also 7:18,19;8:7,8). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Alive said: I wonder. Has anyone in this subject mentioned that the language in 1 John seems to be saying that one born of God doesn't continue or abide in sin? Another way of saying this may be like so: one born of God doesn't take up an abode in sin or linger there. Good stuff Friend! The Blood of the Lord Jesus not only provide forgiveness, but cuts off the flow of its "dominion" (Rom 6:14) at the source (old man; sin nature). Scripture writes that believers are not "in the flesh" (sin nature or old man - (Rom 8:9), but it clearly shows its in us. God has separated us in our mind and heart from the desire towards sin, and it is here where the issue lies. Though believers still sin, it's no longer our desire and we never intentionally seek it in our will because of our new nature which coexists with the old, so God can show his "work" in us (Phl 2:13) in spite of the ongoing presence of the old nature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted October 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted October 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Firm Foundation said: 1 John 3 says Christians don't sin and can't sin, so I won't call God a liar by saying Christians do continue in sin. No FF, it is saying a Christian cannot live a lifestyle of sin. We cannot go on in debauchery, loving and enjoying sin. Our nature will not allow us to continue in sin. We do not have the mindset of the flesh any longer. It only wants sin and pleasures, and cannot please God. Rom 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Rom 8:7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. We are no longer in the realm of the flesh to lead a lifestyle of sin, but we all do still sin. The Bible is clear that you are deceived if you think you don’t. You also make Christ out to be a liar. If you did not still sin there would be no point walking in the light and confessing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Alive said: Are you saying that you don't sin? I am pretty sure that Paul, in that section of Rom. 7, is speaking in the present tense. My friend--if you believe that you never sin, then one day you are going to see differently. I fellowshipped for a few years with folks who held to the belief that 'sinless perfection' was attainable while still in these old bodies. There were all kinds of ways that they had convinced themselves it was true. The depth of this delusion and the blindness to their own shortcomings was an astounding thing to watch. I don't wish to 'prove' you wrong. Please believe that. I would however try to convince you to admit that you might be wrong on this point and to reconsider. No. I am saying I don't go around committing willful sins. All of us fall short of the glory of God and sin without meaning to. I have been very clear about this. No, Paul wasn't speaking about a present tense struggle with the flesh in Romans 7. He was speaking of the struggle people that don't know Jesus go through trying to live under the law of Moses. He was in that condition before meeting Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Sower said: Surely thou jest, Firm. Have you ever committed ONE sin? "Whosoever 'abideth' in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jn, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 Jn: 1, 10 1 John 1 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: My grand children understand this Firm, as do I. I do not know how God could make it any plainer. I sin. I confess. God forgives. Jesus paid the price. I hate sin. So don't start with me, OK? It appears you started with me, not the other way around. Yes, if you confess your sins, God will forgive you. I have never said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 hours ago, saved34 said: No FF, it is saying a Christian cannot live a lifestyle of sin. We cannot go on in debauchery, loving and enjoying sin. Our nature will not allow us to continue in sin. We do not have the mindset of the flesh any longer. It only wants sin and pleasures, and cannot please God. Rom 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Rom 8:7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. We are no longer in the realm of the flesh to lead a lifestyle of sin, but we all do still sin. The Bible is clear that you are deceived if you think you don’t. You also make Christ out to be a liar. If you did not still sin there would be no point walking in the light and confessing. Again, I have been clear about this. I never claimed sinless perfection. I said I don't go around committing willful sins. Also, you are putting your spin on 1 John 3 to make it match your beliefs. You can't prove that is the correct meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted October 8, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Alive said: Are you saying that you don't sin? I am pretty sure that Paul, in that section of Rom. 7, is speaking in the present tense. My friend--if you believe that you never sin, then one day you are going to see differently. I fellowshipped for a few years with folks who held to the belief that 'sinless perfection' was attainable while still in these old bodies. There were all kinds of ways that they had convinced themselves it was true. The depth of this delusion and the blindness to their own shortcomings was an astounding thing to watch. I don't wish to 'prove' you wrong. Please believe that. I would however try to convince you to admit that you might be wrong on this point and to reconsider. Something that is sad to me is that we have someone praising God they are in bondage to sin. I am not speaking of the person who I am quoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts