Will pregnancy and toddlers/children vanish when Rapture happens ?

[iamlamad]

25 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Apparently it is. A dozen scriptures all say Jesus is at the right hand of the Father but you ignore them. I don't think the difficulty is external.

OF COURSE I don't ignore them! Neither did God. This was God's way of showing is TIMING: It is a flashback showing us a throne room during the time Jesus was on the earth - or under the earth.

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE I don't ignore them! Neither did God. This was God's way of showing is TIMING: It is a flashback showing us a throne room during the time Jesus was on the earth - or under the earth.

Apparently you are. According to scripture Jesus had to be there in the Throne Room when John showed up. But you say he was not. So then, your position is that Jesus was there when John got there, then Jesus was not there as God rolled back time, then Jesus was there as God fast forwarded; even though there is no explicit or implied verse or verses that either state or suggest such a thing is the case.

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon."

Two things, Jesus isn't a man; He's God. So your idea that the highlighted verse fragment removes Jesus from the Throne room doesn't wash.

Found worthy does not mean a search was on over the face of the earth to find a worthy man. It means no one made the grade; 'found worthy', not worthy to be found. " "to find by inquiry, thought, examination, scrutiny, observation, hearing; to find out by practice and experience," i. e. to see, learn, discover, understand:" Same as in Rev 3:2

[iamlamad]

Just now, Diaste said:

Not the point.  There is no connotation of good or evil in the verse. "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." You are reading that into this. It's not the gospel in any case. Show me verses where the gospel is likened to anything. Anything at all.

The representation is that of a conqueror. The white horse is the symbol of conquest. It is used when Jesus and His armies return. That's all it is. Nothing more. Not good or bad. In fact Jesus would be a far better interpretation of Rev 6:2 than the gospel since Jesus is named and depicted riding a white horse.

And? It's still conquering and your thoughts on the matter do not preclude war. Where does scripture say 'no war till after the A of D'? In fact Jesus says in Matt 24 there will be wars and rumors of wars well before the A of D. I cannot rule out the beast as prosecutor of those wars, or some of them, or none of them. No evidence either way. It's just your thoughts. Unless you can provide scripture to that effect.

Again, the first seal rider could more easily be interpreted as Jesus than the gospel as Jesus is riding a white horse and coming to battle. So then why isn't the 1st seal rider going to war? So you are admitting that horses mean war and the rider conquerors ergo, not the gospel.

What doesn't fit? No one is saying, "then immediately taking the book from the Father and then opening the first seal ". You are saying this. It's not out of context. The context is the end of the age. The end of the age cannot begin until we are in the generation that sees all these things. No one knows when that is. But since all of those things have not come to pass then no generation alive or dead has seen even one seal open.

I am saying that one must READ INTO the text a 2000 year wait. It is not there. The intent of the script is that as soon as Jesus ascended, He took the book and began opening the seals. The Greek word translated "conquering" and "to conquer" was usually translated "overcome."

Strong's:  overcome (24x), conquer (2x), prevail (1x), get the victory (1x)

In other words, God is not showing us typical warfare. It is spiritual warfare. We don't make disciples of nations by open war! That is the way Islam does it. We use spiritual warfare with spiritual weapons. 

How could Jesus be the rider on the white horse and at the same time be the one opening the seal?  I don't see that as a possible meaning. 

The point is, how John used the color white in every other verse where "white" is used. 

Ultimately, we MUST keep this first seal in its first century context. Anything else would be terrible exegesis.  Jesus was seen suddenly appearing in the throne room, and the Holy Spirit then sent down. That tells us that in the mind of time, the TIMING is when Jesus ascended. 

⁶ And I looked, ^[c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. ⁷ Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Can you find any TIME between verse 6 where Jesus has just ascended, and verse 7 when He takes the book? There is NO TIME there. We understand that by the word THEN. 

The context is the end of the age.   WRONG! The context is Jesus suddenly appeared back in the throne room and sent the Holy Spirit down.  YOUR context might be the end of the age, but that is not what God's context is here.  Many people IMAGINE John is at the end of the age. But where was John in chapter 3? He was back in 95 AD - the beginning of the church age.

But since all of those things have not come to pass then no generation alive or dead has seen even one seal open.  Sorry, but John saw the first seal opened in the vision, then the world saw the church take the gospel to the nations. You are pulling the first seal out of its biblical context. I suspect those dreaded preconceptions at work. Go back and read verses 6 & 7 again: they set the timing to 32 AD or around that year. 

Show me verses where the gospel is likened to anything.  How about a sower sowing seeds?

The white horse is the symbol of conquest.  I disagree. The horse may be a symbol of conquest, but the white horse MUST represent something related to God and to heaven.

It is used when Jesus and His armies return  Agreed. When Jesus returns, it will be conquest, and it will CERTAINLY be related to God and to heaven.  The white horse at the first seal MUST be related to God and to heaven - and it is  - as the church taking the Gospel to the nations.  

Where does scripture say 'no war till after the A of D'  I don't know where you came up with this idea.

In fact Jesus says in Matt 24 there will be wars and rumors of wars well before the A of D  That is what I have been saying all along! The first seal is the gospel going forth, and seals 2 - 4 are Satan's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel using war, famine, and pestilence. This AGREES with Jesus' own words. 

Again, the first seal rider could more easily be interpreted as Jesus than the gospel as Jesus is riding a white horse and coming to battle  Sorry, but Jesus is the one opening the seal. 

So then why isn't the 1st seal rider going to war?  That Greek word was translated as "overcome" in every other verse. It is not representing a physical war. 

So you are admitting that horses mean war and the rider conquerors ergo, not the gospel.  Horses have been seen in prophecy to represent war. Agreed. But John qualifies this as overcoming, which is what the church does. I have always doubted if God was behind the crusades.

It seems you and I will continue to disagree here. I am sure you have seen this before, but I think you need to see it again. Jesus asked me three questions that I could not answer. 

1.  Why was I not seen at the right hand of the Father in the first part of this vision? There are many verses that say I went to be at the rigth hand of the Father. (Stephen saw him there about 60 years previous.)

2. Why was the Holy Spirit seen IN the throne room, when I said that I would send Him down as soon as I ascended?

3. Why was "no man found" in the search for one worthy to open the seals? if you read ahead, you see that I was found worthy, but here "no man was found." John wrote that the search ended in failure, and that is why he wept much.

What doesn't fit?  John does not get to the abomination until chapter 11, and does not get to the days of GT until after chapter 14. It does not fit into John's narrative that the Antichrist Beast shows up in chapter 6. This is seeing the entire forest, rather than concentrating on a tree in the forest. Most people want to jump ahead of John by 2000 years.

[Diaste]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I am saying that one must READ INTO the text a 2000 year wait. It is not there. The intent of the script is that as soon as Jesus ascended, He took the book and began opening the seals. The Greek word translated "conquering" and "to conquer" was usually translated "overcome."

Strong's:  overcome (24x), conquer (2x), prevail (1x), get the victory (1x)

In other words, God is not showing us typical warfare. It is spiritual warfare. We don't make disciples of nations by open war! That is the way Islam does it. We use spiritual warfare with spiritual weapons. 

How could Jesus be the rider on the white horse and at the same time be the one opening the seal?  I don't see that as a possible meaning. 

The point is, how John used the color white in every other verse where "white" is used. 

Ultimately, we MUST keep this first seal in its first century context. Anything else would be terrible exegesis.  Jesus was seen suddenly appearing in the throne room, and the Holy Spirit then sent down. That tells us that in the mind of time, the TIMING is when Jesus ascended. 

⁶ And I looked, ^[c]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. ⁷ Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Can you find any TIME between verse 6 where Jesus has just ascended, and verse 7 when He takes the book? There is NO TIME there. We understand that by the word THEN. 

The context is the end of the age.   WRONG! The context is Jesus suddenly appeared back in the throne room and sent the Holy Spirit down.  YOUR context might be the end of the age, but that is not what God's context is here.  Many people IMAGINE John is at the end of the age. But where was John in chapter 3? He was back in 95 AD - the beginning of the church age.

But since all of those things have not come to pass then no generation alive or dead has seen even one seal open.  Sorry, but John saw the first seal opened in the vision, then the world saw the church take the gospel to the nations. You are pulling the first seal out of its biblical context. I suspect those dreaded preconceptions at work. Go back and read verses 6 & 7 again: they set the timing to 32 AD or around that year. 

Show me verses where the gospel is likened to anything.  How about a sower sowing seeds?

The white horse is the symbol of conquest.  I disagree. The horse may be a symbol of conquest, but the white horse MUST represent something related to God and to heaven.

It is used when Jesus and His armies return  Agreed. When Jesus returns, it will be conquest, and it will CERTAINLY be related to God and to heaven.  The white horse at the first seal MUST be related to God and to heaven - and it is  - as the church taking the Gospel to the nations.  

Where does scripture say 'no war till after the A of D'  I don't know where you came up with this idea.

In fact Jesus says in Matt 24 there will be wars and rumors of wars well before the A of D  That is what I have been saying all along! The first seal is the gospel going forth, and seals 2 - 4 are Satan's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel using war, famine, and pestilence. This AGREES with Jesus' own words. 

Again, the first seal rider could more easily be interpreted as Jesus than the gospel as Jesus is riding a white horse and coming to battle  Sorry, but Jesus is the one opening the seal. 

So then why isn't the 1st seal rider going to war?  That Greek word was translated as "overcome" in every other verse. It is not representing a physical war. 

So you are admitting that horses mean war and the rider conquerors ergo, not the gospel.  Horses have been seen in prophecy to represent war. Agreed. But John qualifies this as overcoming, which is what the church does. I have always doubted if God was behind the crusades.

It seems you and I will continue to disagree here. I am sure you have seen this before, but I think you need to see it again. Jesus asked me three questions that I could not answer. 

1.  Why was I not seen at the right hand of the Father in the first part of this vision? There are many verses that say I went to be at the rigth hand of the Father. (Stephen saw him there about 60 years previous.)

2. Why was the Holy Spirit seen IN the throne room, when I said that I would send Him down as soon as I ascended?

3. Why was "no man found" in the search for one worthy to open the seals? if you read ahead, you see that I was found worthy, but here "no man was found." John wrote that the search ended in failure, and that is why he wept much.

What doesn't fit?  John does not get to the abomination until chapter 11, and does not get to the days of GT until after chapter 14. It does not fit into John's narrative that the Antichrist Beast shows up in chapter 6. This is seeing the entire forest, rather than concentrating on a tree in the forest. Most people want to jump ahead of John by 2000 years.

You'll see. If any of us live till that point.

[iamlamad]

23 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Apparently you are. According to scripture Jesus had to be there in the Throne Room when John showed up. But you say he was not. So then, your position is that Jesus was there when John got there, then Jesus was not there as God rolled back time, then Jesus was there as God fast forwarded; even though there is no explicit or implied verse or verses that either state or suggest such a thing is the case.

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon."

Two things, Jesus isn't a man; He's God. So your idea that the highlighted verse fragment removes Jesus from the Throne room doesn't wash.

Found worthy does not mean a search was on over the face of the earth to find a worthy man. It means no one made the grade; 'found worthy', not worthy to be found. " "to find by inquiry, thought, examination, scrutiny, observation, hearing; to find out by practice and experience," i. e. to see, learn, discover, understand:" Same as in Rev 3:2

Maybe you need to read that again: It was 95 AD when Jesus called John up, but John saw this heaven opened INSIDE the vision. And the first thing John saw after that was the throne room with Jesus NOT SEEN at the right hand of the Father. Like you said: a flashback.  Maybe you should first ask the question: WHEN did the vision begin? I submit when John first saw Jesus it was in vision form. And from that time on, through many chapters, it was all in a vision. 

OF COURSE it washes. God is telling us that ONLY A MAN could qualify to open the seals. Further, it had to be a man who could prevail over death and rise out of the grave by His own power. You do remember that God BECAME MAN?  The point God was making (and still is making) is that JESUS HIMSELF was not qualified to take the book and open the seals UNTIL AFTER He rose from the dead. 

⁴ So I wept much, because no one was found worthy...

The word "found" tells us the angel was looking...ie...a search. The angel was sent to search for a man worthy to open the seals. This is probably nit picking: the point is, at one point in time Jesus was NOT worthy, but later He BECAME worthy be prevailing over death.

John tells us this "search" included all of heaven, all of earth, and even under the earth.

Edited December 30, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

Just now, Diaste said:

You'll see. If any of us live till that point.

Certainly - and so will you.

[iamlamad]

For those that insist the first seal represents the Antichrist Beast of Rev. 13: 

Why does John not get to the Beast until chapter 13, and you imagine he is in chapter 6?

Why does the catch-all phrase at the 4th seal include the Red, the Black and the Pale but leave out the White?

Since these three, the Red, the Black and the Pale are limited to one fourth of the earth, if it is the Antichrist leading them then that would also limit the Antichrist to one fourth the earth, but we have other scriptures showing us his influence is world-wide. 

In the end, the first seal as Antichrist simply does not fit.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

...

Your conclusions simply are not based in reality. Seal 2 is taking peace from the earth. It's not a limited definition such as war. Since there has never been peace on the earth since the Fall this is something very different.

Seal 3 does not cause famine. It's economic control based on scarcity. There has to be a cause for such world wide scarcity. As far as I know even world wars did not cause world wide scarcity. The US was lifted out of a severe depression based on WWII. Again this control based on scarcity has a very different cause.

The 4th seal doesn't seem to have any bearing on the previous 2 and I don't see the same conclusion here. It's just as possible that death and hades commands 1/4 of the earth. This seal also kills with the beasts of the earth. That's not limiting the control to a region. It could, but since the other seals are world wide I see this as more as commandeering 1/4 of the earth as a force of death. Interestingly the population of adherents to the Muslim faith is just about 1/4 of the population of earth. 

But if your conclusions are correct concerning the land mass idea then is the 5th seal also limited regionally? I bet it isn't.

 

Not true. Well, it is if one has no clue about what is happening at the end. Let me point out to the big problem with the logic here.

It could be anytime no matter when they asked. The answer to the question was, "they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled." It's not a time nor is it limited. It's a condition that must be reached in a specific way for a specific set of people. They must be "killed as they [were]" and there is a specific set "that should be killed" and it has to be a specific number that  must be reached that it "should be fulfilled".  A time element has no bearing.  No martyr could know timing no matter when they sacrificed their life as time isn't even mentioned. That's your interpretation.

Matt 24:30-31 is the same set of events as Rev 6:12-17, which only comes after the Midpoint of the week and after great tribulation. More than half the week is over by the time of the 6th seal.

Also, the 6th seal and the 7th trump are connected in time and space.

"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

" And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Unless you are saying wrath comes twice. You would have to since God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, which you acknowledge, but then again at the 7th trump, as scripture says above.

It's more plausible to stay with the arrangement of scripture. The seals are the overview and everything else happens within that parameter. The seals open and by the time of the fifth seal 6 trumps have sounded. We are taken at the last trump and since that is the 7th trump of Revelation, the 7th trump must sound in conjunction with the 6th seal, either just before, at the same time or just after.

First off, you are missing that the "taking peace" from the earth is limited to only 1/4 of the earth. Since the gospel began in Jerusalem, it seems right that this 1/4 the earth would be centered on Jerusalem; therefore probably Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.

Seal 3 does not cause famine.  Since it takes a whole days wages just to buy food for the family, and that only the cheapest food available, it certainly speaks of hard times. And for those with no wages, it certainly speaks of hunger. If all I could eat would be barley, I would very soon hunger after something else!

for such world wide scarcity.   Sorry, not world wide: it is limited to 1/4 the earth.

The 4th seal doesn't seem to have any bearing on the previous 2  You are missing the link; John ties 2-4 together:

Ask yourself: WHO is the "them?

And ^[f]power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

 

Interestingly the population of adherents to the Muslim faith is just about 1/4 of the population of earth.   Brilliant deduction!  I agree.

is the 5th seal also limited regionally? I bet it isn't.  I don't see John linking it to the previous 3 seals. We agree.

must be "killed as they [were]"  I puzzled over that and bugged God about it for weeks, perhaps months. Common sense told me that different martyrs were put to death in different manners, some beheaded, some crucified, some fed to wild animals, etc - so I knew that was not the meaning. I finally understood: Killed "as they were" meant killed as church age saints. All these are church age martyrs because John has not yet arrived at the time judgment begins. The church age is the age of grace; judgment is not going to start in a big way until the age of grace is over.  We see grace over and judgment starting with the 6th seal. Someone martyred after the abomination in chapter 11 would be a different class: 70th week martyrs. They are seen in chapter 15.  You are right: God know the final number and will be looking for that.

If someone has turned to God during the days of GT and are then caught - would they know God's schedule: that the Beast would rule only for 42 months?  It is a good question. My guess is, news travels fast.  

I think you know that these seals, 2 through 4, parallel what Jesus said in the Olivet discourse: earthquakes, wars, pestilences, etc.  And with these Jesus added, "the end is not yet..." In other words, Jesus is associating these things with the church age, not with the end.

Matt 24:30-31 is the same set of events as Rev 6:12-17,  Why do you say this? I could not disagree more. One is before the 70th week while one is AFTER the 70th week. Please expand on this. 

More than half the week is over by the time of the 6th seal.  Again, please expand on this and explain how you come to this conclusion. I think it is error and shows a lack of understanding of John's narrative.  I see the week starting with the first trumpet.

Also, the 6th seal and the 7th trump are connected in time and space.  You will have to prove this with scripture, but I don't think you can.  

For the great day of his wrath is come

and thy wrath is come

"is come" erchomai  (Strong's)

 

Speech: Verb  Tense: Second Aorist  Voice: Active  Mood: Indicative

Definition of "Second Aorist"
Is identical in meaning and translation to the normal or "first" aorist tense.

Aorist tense: Definition of "Aorist"
Is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense...  (Strong's)

Another Greek Scholar wrote "not inflected to show tense."

In other words, at the 6th seal, we know that wrath has begun then just by the mention of the word wrath.  In chapter 11, wrath has been ongoing so the wrath there (and thy wrath is come) is simply showing us His wrath is present at that time. And of course it is, because it started previously and is continuing. 

Unless you are saying wrath comes twice.  No, His wrath begins and continues on for the entire week. It does not start and stop. In chapter 11 John is just confirming that wrath is present at that time in his narrative.

It would be extremely poor exegesis to imagine the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet are at the same time just for John's use of an Aorist tense verb! The truth is, if we follow John's narrative and determine not to add to it or take away from it, the 6th seal comes before the 70th week has begun, while the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint - that very moment the man of sin commits the abomination. 

It's more plausible to stay with the arrangement of scripture.   I agree. Wrath begins at the 6th seal, before the week begins, and continues on through the entire week, until the 7th vial that ends the week. I think Jesus has wrath when He descends.

The seals are the overview   No, the seals are sealing the book, nothing more, nothing less. Once a seal is opened, it is over and forgotten. What many MISS: when the 7th seal is opened, the BOOK is opened, and the trumpets are what is written inside the book.

The seals open and by the time of the fifth seal 6 trumps have sounded  How on earth are you going to have ANY trump sound  - written INSIDE the book - until all 7 seals are opened? It is impossible. You overlook verses such as this:

Rev. 8:1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. ² And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 

The book that reveals the trumpet judgments cannot be opened until all 7 seals are opened FIRST. This is John's chronology.

I disagree with your timing: I am going to stick with John's timing.

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I must ask this: can you find 2ooo years in any of those verses before or after Jesus got the book into His hands? I cannot. I cannot even find a hint trying to read between the lines. Why would that be? It is simple: Jesus got the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended. 

Yes, I can but I doubt you can accept it.

• Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  Revelation 1:19
• After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”  Revelation 4:1

The overarching chronology of Revelation is stated in those verses: the seals are opened after the things which are.  What is "the things which are" a reference to?  Compare that sequencing of events with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:

• This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.  Matthew 24:14

The things which are (the seven letters to the seven churches) represents the gospel being preached in the whole world.  The end is unfolded afterward, in the seven seals.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

What REALLY happens after chapter 3 when John wrote, "after this?" It is simple: a transitional phrase to represent a change or transition: God was finished dictating the messages to the churches (95 AD) and was going to begin a vision about the BOOK.  The timing of the last verse of chapter 3 was 95 AD and the timing of the first verse of chapter 4 was 95 AD. That was when John was called up. But immediately in the vision God used a flashback. It is not a difficult concept. The question is, WHY a flashback? I submit God does not waste words: He showed John a throne room with Jesus absent for a purpose: to show timing. 

How long did "the things which are" last?  Those things did exist.  Tell me all you can about what Jesus meant when He said "the things which are."

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Yes, I can but I doubt you can accept it.

• Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.  Revelation 1:19
• After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”  Revelation 4:1

The overarching chronology of Revelation is stated in those verses: the seals are opened after the things which are.  What is "the things which are" a reference to?  Compare that sequencing of events with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:

• This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.  Matthew 24:14

The things which are (the seven letters to the seven churches) represents the gospel being preached in the whole world.  The end is unfolded afterward, in the seven seals.

How long did "the things which are" last?  Those things did exist.  Tell me all you can about what Jesus meant when He said "the things which are."

Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”  In fact, DID John write of things hereafter? You know He did. Please note carefully: if John had written two or three future events, then filled the rest of the book up with recipes for manna, God would not have gone against this phrase. Again, it does not say John will write ONLY of things future. Many people seem to read in an "only" as if John could not include past events. 

In truth, this book includes things John saw, things which were in John's day, and certainly things to come. In other words, there is nothing here to prevent God or john from including some history.  Nice try.