Holidays over Holy Days...

[LadyKay]

Well now I am waiting to hear what this fest day/Holy day is all about. I am all curious now. 

[Tigger56]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:52 AM, dhchristian said:

Hi Tigger,

I Just want to point out what Paul says here...Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col. 2:16-17)

We as the church celebrate Christ Jesus who has become our Passover. He is the bread broken, the Blood shed upon the cross for us, We celebrate this feast by receiving His Testimony, that He is the Lamb of God. The fall feasts will be fulfilled in the end times, in a similar fashion, As we Tabernacle with the LORD in the Wilderness of His provision. We Will honor that feast as well in Christ Jesus who is our redeemer and provider, and our King, Much like we celebrate the feast of Passover when we have communion and celebrate his resurrection. I Do not call this easter,I call this Resurrection Sunday.

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Cor. 5:7-8)

So there is the shadow, and the real thing that the shadow foretold is to come. He is our Holy Days, Just like He is our Sabbath rest. When we come to Him we enter His resting place and rest from our works. Understanding the feast of tabernacles is important to a Christian, Celebrating it will be to Celebrate Christ Jesus Our King when he comes riding on the White Horse to rule. What tabernacles represents is the turning of our season of sorrow into a season of Joy. The 40 days of sorrow beginning with Elul 1 leading up to the day of atonement represents the tribulation and great tribulation of birth pangs and conception, The Joy comes after the Birth occurs. The contractions of this birthing process are increasing as we speak, and soon, that actual great tribulation of delivery will occur.  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Romans 8:22-23)

  

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this. I'm not in agreement with how many use the verse in Colossians 2:16. It if greatly misquoted is truthfully much is based upon poor scholarship and misunderstanding of Paul's meaning in this verse. Much can be learned by following line upon line and precept upon precept and also looking at scriptures in the whole by looking at context of who was being written too and what was the main context of the writing instead of taking one verse to fit a particular doctrine.  This particular verse is used by many to justify the breaking of the Sabbath and the ignoring of God's holy days. But that was never the intent of Paul in this writing. Paul kept the Sabbath and Holy Days and understood the meaning and the importance of these day. When looking at the context of this passage you will see that Paul is countering a local heresy and actually confirms and explains the value of God's days. By him saying that they are a shadow of things to come expresses the importance of them and the meaning of them within the plan of God.  Look at the verse in Colossians 2:8, here Paul is addressing and warning the Colossians of philosophy and the traditions of men. I wonder why this verse isn't quoted?  It is because many prefer, even today, the traditions of men over the ways of the Lord. Humanly devised tradition was the problem Paul was countering in his writing not the instructions of the Lord. This is similar to what Jesus encountered in Mark 7:8-13.  People prefer their traditions and man today worship God as they choose and justify it by the misuse of such verses as found in Colossians 2:16 with no or little understanding of its true meaning. They use a verse showing that they were not to let false teachers judge them in the keeping of God's days in preference and in obedience over man's traditions. 

Paul was combating not the ways of God but the false worship of angels and traditions of men, Colossians 2:21-22, .... according to the commandments and doctrines of men...,   Man's problem over the ages is their insistence that they worship who they desire and how they desire.  So many use Colossians 2:16 to justify the observance of Sunday, when that wasn't even the subject being addressed, for Sunday worship wasn't a problem being faced by the Colossians at that time. That rea  red its head later. It is the commandments and doctrines of men that was the problem Paul was addressing not the commandments of God. In Colossians when Paul stated, let no one judge you in food.... he wasn't discussing the types of food being eaten but the fact that many felt that any type of feasting and rejoicing on the Sabbaths, Feast Days and new moons shouldn't be done. The deceivers disdained any type of feasting and any type of enjoyment within the ways of the Lord. 

Paul was stressing that the false teachers had no authority to judge or determine how the Colossians were to observe God's festivals. He is telling them to eject false human judgment, he is not telling them to reject God's judgment and direction. They is nothing in these scriptures that indicates that God's Sabbath and holy days were being abolished, yet why do so many try to use that scripture for that purpose?

 

[Tigger56]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:15 AM, LadyKay said:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.  Colossians 2:16 

Wouldn't this verse be the answer? Saying that we should not  judge others or be judge  by others on  what holidays we keep or don't keep?  There is also something in Romans about this as well. 

 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.  Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God .Romans 14:4-6  

It seems to me this would apply.  

Once again, Colossians 2:16 is being misquoted. Please do some study into the entire letter to the Colssians. He is instructed them not to allow false teachers to judge them in their observance of God's days not in their lack of observance.  This scripture does not abolish God's holy days or God's Sabbath. I am simply sharing what is in God's word, if they appears to be judging, I am sorry, simply quoting scripture and trying to explain the context of the same. I understand the confusion for this scripture is often misquoted without people doing the research.

Romans....  this is also a much misunderstood and misquoted scripture. Paul is not and have never justified the doing away of God's Sabbaths. Many read into these verses what they desire to believe. I do believe all must work out their own salvation. I also believe some are weak in faith and weak in understanding, I truly believe God will reveal to those who desire and that we should not simply judge another. But is it judgement to share what is written in God's word?  Many times I see these words used not truly in regards to judgment but are used for justification... and in this there is a huge difference.

[Tigger56]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:21 AM, JustPassingThru said:

So I'm happy the Lord has blessed you my brother and for that you judge me, ...are you really keeping the "spirit" of the Holy Days?

Those of the Gentile nations that survive the last seven years of Daniel's 490 year prophecy, ...that God gave to him, will have to repopulate a renewed planet after the terrible judgement that fell upon and destroyed it from the Wrath of the Lamb.

Their children will have to be taught the ways of God, so that means not one "jot or tittle will fall" will be in effect for them, for them to "learn" about God, ...for 1,000 years those on the Earth will be forced to live the moral and ceremonial "Laws" God imposed on His chosen people, the children of Israel, ...that is what the prophet Zechariah is prophesying about and the people that will have to observe it.

The millennium is the "seventh" day in God's plan to show mankind there is nothing in them holy or righteous, ...living in perfect "Edenic" conditions, ...at the end of the 1,000 years the turn and join forces with the devil and rebel and revolt against God, ...proving what God said about man is true:

I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; I have no good apart from you.”  Psa 16:2

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9

 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:  Rom 7:18a

Why do so many jump to "judgment" and "judging". I'm not judging rather I believe you are "justifying".  You may say that that statement is "judging" but did you not judge me by your opening statement.  So it appears that sharing God's scriptures, if it goes against someone's own doctrinal grids it immediately becomes "judgment" instead of discussion.  So sad.

[Guest andre hufschmit]

mmh nice

Edited November 20, 2019 by andre hufschmit

[JustPassingThru]

On 11/18/2019 at 7:18 AM, Tzephanyahu said:

I'm sure Paul and Timothy had the Spirit AND walked by the Spirit.  Yet they still trained and corrected themselves in the Word.  No Logos this and rhema that, no millennium this or "until this time and then".  Rather simply, the eternal Words of Yahweh preserved for our benefit.

Thanks for the kind words brother, ...I must admit when I first heard about the Rhema word of God it came out of the mouth of WoF people and it turned me off, ...later on the Holy Spirit led me to study it and I was truly surprised to find this:

But He (Jesus) answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  Matt 4:4

Dear brother, the "word" Jesus used is Rhema, ...that shocked me, ...then the word "proceedeth" in the KJV means "continually," ...this revelation changed how I "looked" at the Rhema words of Jesus and caused me to study more, ...look at this verse:

If ye abide in me, and my words 'Rhema)abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. John 15:7

Jesus is totally refuting the WoF doctrine, ...what He is saying is if "He" tells us to do something (not our vain imagination acting in presumption), ...and we believe in faith He has told us, ...we can ask and He will do it!

A well know example is, ...Peter said, Lord if that is really you, then tell me to come to you and Jesus spoke a word of Rhema, ...Come, and Peter stepped out of the boat and walked on water.

In my own life, ...even before I knew about the Rhema word of Jesus, ...He told me to go to Tahiti, and He gave me the faith to believe and against all of the obstacles in front of me I believed He told me to go, and I watched in sheer and utter amazement as He supernaturally-naturally removed them, now, all of these years later and since I stepped out in faith to "walk" on water with Him, ...I hear Him speak to me daily, guiding and direction my life from the smallest detail as to what tool I should take with me to work, or which route to take to avoid the traffic,  ...to the largest problem that confronts me.

Yes brother, Father has preserved and seen to it that we have many copies of His eternal Word (Logos) but may I encourage you that walking with Jesus, conversing with Him (Rhema) like the two on the road to Emmaus, ...is so rewarding as we grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord.

Lord bless

 

[dhchristian]

46 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this. I'm not in agreement with how many use the verse in Colossians 2:16. It if greatly misquoted is truthfully much is based upon poor scholarship and misunderstanding of Paul's meaning in this verse. Much can be learned by following line upon line and precept upon precept and also looking at scriptures in the whole by looking at context of who was being written too and what was the main context of the writing instead of taking one verse to fit a particular doctrine.  This particular verse is used by many to justify the breaking of the Sabbath and the ignoring of God's holy days. But that was never the intent of Paul in this writing. Paul kept the Sabbath and Holy Days and understood the meaning and the importance of these day. When looking at the context of this passage you will see that Paul is countering a local heresy and actually confirms and explains the value of God's days. By him saying that they are a shadow of things to come expresses the importance of them and the meaning of them within the plan of God.  Look at the verse in Colossians 2:8, here Paul is addressing and warning the Colossians of philosophy and the traditions of men. I wonder why this verse isn't quoted?  It is because many prefer, even today, the traditions of men over the ways of the Lord. Humanly devised tradition was the problem Paul was countering in his writing not the instructions of the Lord. This is similar to what Jesus encountered in Mark 7:8-13.  People prefer their traditions and man today worship God as they choose and justify it by the misuse of such verses as found in Colossians 2:16 with no or little understanding of its true meaning. They use a verse showing that they were not to let false teachers judge them in the keeping of God's days in preference and in obedience over man's traditions. 

Paul was combating not the ways of God but the false worship of angels and traditions of men, Colossians 2:21-22, .... according to the commandments and doctrines of men...,   Man's problem over the ages is their insistence that they worship who they desire and how they desire.  So many use Colossians 2:16 to justify the observance of Sunday, when that wasn't even the subject being addressed, for Sunday worship wasn't a problem being faced by the Colossians at that time. That rea  red its head later. It is the commandments and doctrines of men that was the problem Paul was addressing not the commandments of God. In Colossians when Paul stated, let no one judge you in food.... he wasn't discussing the types of food being eaten but the fact that many felt that any type of feasting and rejoicing on the Sabbaths, Feast Days and new moons shouldn't be done. The deceivers disdained any type of feasting and any type of enjoyment within the ways of the Lord. 

Paul was stressing that the false teachers had no authority to judge or determine how the Colossians were to observe God's festivals. He is telling them to eject false human judgment, he is not telling them to reject God's judgment and direction. They is nothing in these scriptures that indicates that God's Sabbath and holy days were being abolished, yet why do so many try to use that scripture for that purpose?

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (Col. 2:20-23)

I Highly suggest you read The following Link to understand Will Worship. The ESV Translates verse 23 as follows: These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. (ESV)

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1544-pauls-condemnation-of-will-worship

You are missing out on the whole Point of why Paul wrote what he wrote in Col. 2:16-17 if you do not understand will worship. Religion is Based on will worship. There are three wills that we need to deal with in our lives, there is the will of the flesh, the will of man and the Will of God, (john 1:13) Only doing the will of God is pleasing to God. Many churches today operate by the Will of man, and how this works has led to all manner of religious endeavor, Stately buildings, vast organizations, Large worship bands, fancy light shows, ad infinitum... That we see in the modern church today. How we celebrate the Holy Days, sabbaths and what food we eat is nothing more than will worship. hence Paul writes Let no man beguile (DISQUALIFY) you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (Col 2:18) I Highly suggest you explore this issue of will worship further.

God Bless.

[JustPassingThru]

1 hour ago, Tigger56 said:

Paul kept the Sabbath and Holy Days and understood the meaning and the importance of these day.

Interesting statement you have made, ...it contradicts what Paul himself said:

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,   Php 3:8

Do you care to explain what things Paul considered "dung," in the "context" of the above verse?

[Tigger56]

13 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (Col. 2:20-23)

I Highly suggest you read The following Link to understand Will Worship. The ESV Translates verse 23 as follows: These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. (ESV)

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1544-pauls-condemnation-of-will-worship

You are missing out on the whole Point of why Paul wrote what he wrote in Col. 2:16-17 if you do not understand will worship. Religion is Based on will worship. There are three wills that we need to deal with in our lives, there is the will of the flesh, the will of man and the Will of God, (john 1:13) Only doing the will of God is pleasing to God. Many churches today operate by the Will of man, and how this works has led to all manner of religious endeavor, Stately buildings, vast organizations, Large worship bands, fancy light shows, ad infinitum... That we see in the modern church today. How we celebrate the Holy Days, sabbaths and what food we eat is nothing more than will worship. hence Paul writes Let no man beguile (DISQUALIFY) you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (Col 2:18) I Highly suggest you explore this issue of will worship further.

God Bless.

Totally lost me on that reasoning.  How we celebrate the Holy Days, Sabbaths, Foods we eat are not to be determined by man. This is what man desires to do and this is why they walk in disobedience. God lays out in his holy word how these days are to be observed. To learn the first way go to Exodus 20: 8 - 11. For how to observe the Holy Days go to Leviticus 23. This is how God tells us to do it, any other way... then you are talking about man's will.

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, Tigger56 said:

Once again, Colossians 2:16 is being misquoted. Please do some study into the entire letter to the Colssians. He is instructed them not to allow false teachers to judge them in their observance of God's days not in their lack of observance.  This scripture does not abolish God's holy days or God's Sabbath. I am simply sharing what is in God's word, if they appears to be judging, I am sorry, simply quoting scripture and trying to explain the context of the same. I understand the confusion for this scripture is often misquoted without people doing the research.

Romans....  this is also a much misunderstood and misquoted scripture. Paul is not and have never justified the doing away of God's Sabbaths. Many read into these verses what they desire to believe. I do believe all must work out their own salvation. I also believe some are weak in faith and weak in understanding, I truly believe God will reveal to those who desire and that we should not simply judge another. But is it judgement to share what is written in God's word?  Many times I see these words used not truly in regards to judgment but are used for justification... and in this there is a huge difference.

 I am setting aside any disagreement I may have at this time to asked this.  Just what are these Holy days that you say we as Christian are required to take part in? What activities are we suppose to do on these days and how do we go about celebrating them?