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Isaiah43:25

Is God a God of grace first? or is grace the exception?

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On 11/23/2019 at 7:53 AM, Revlori said:

Grace would actually be the second, the first would be love. God's grace follows who he is , which is love!!!

God does not merely love; he is love.

Revlori, I think we need to be careful on how we state this, because it can lead to a major misunderstanding as well. I highly recommend taking a look at AW Tozer's book The Knowledge of the Holy, and read his chapter on Love. It does a nice job breaking down what scripture means when it says God is love. It helped correct a lot of my theology.

If you're able to read this, I'd be very interested to know what you think of it. :)

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37 minutes ago, Isaiah43:25 said:

Revlori, I think we need to be careful on how we state this, because it can lead to a major misunderstanding as well. I highly recommend taking a look at AW Tozer's book The Knowledge of the Holy, and read his chapter on Love. It does a nice job breaking down what scripture means when it says God is love. It helped correct a lot of my theology.

If you're able to read this, I'd be very interested to know what you think of it. :)

Hello,

Ok I just found it on kindle store. I will read it and then we can talk about it. It looks like it's about 117 pages, with the holidays approaching I will try and read it quickly but not to fast, I don't want to over look anything. But I look forward in talking with you soon about it.

God bless 😇 and Thank you

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10 minutes ago, Revlori said:

Hello,

Ok I just found it on kindle store. I will read it and then we can talk about it. It looks like it's about 117 pages, with the holidays approaching I will try and read it quickly but not to fast, I don't want to over look anything. But I look forward in talking with you soon about it.

God bless 😇 and Thank you

Knowledge Of The Holy by   A.W. Tozer    Table of Contents PREFACE CHAPTER 1 Why We Must Think Rightly About God CHAPTER 2 God Incomprehensible CHAPTER 3 A Divine Attribute: Something True About God CHAPTER 4 The Holy Trinity CHAPTER 5 The Self-existance Of God CHAPTER 6 The self-sufficiency Of God CHAPTER 7 The Eternity Of God CHAPTER 8 God's Infinitude CHAPTER 9 The Immutability Of God CHAPTER 10 The Divine Omniscience CHAPTER 11 The Wisdom Of God CHAPTER 12 The Omnipotence Of God CHAPTER 13 The Devine Transcendence CHAPTER 14 God's Omnipresence CHAPTER 15 The Faithfulness Of God CHAPTER 16 The Goodness Of God CHAPTER 17 The Justice Of God CHAPTER 18 The Mercy Of God CHAPTER 19 The Grace Of God CHAPTER 20 The Love Of God CHAPTER 21 The Holiness Of God CHAPTER 22 The Sovereignty Of God CHAPTER 23 The Open Secret Taken

Just downloaded it...

 

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:10 AM, Isaiah43:25 said:

Revlori, I think we need to be careful on how we state this, because it can lead to a major misunderstanding as well. I highly recommend taking a look at AW Tozer's book The Knowledge of the Holy, and read his chapter on Love. It does a nice job breaking down what scripture means when it says God is love. It helped correct a lot of my theology.

If you're able to read this, I'd be very interested to know what you think of it. :)

This is just off the top of my head at the moment. I have said many times that if it were not for Gods grace we would have no hope. We say God is love therefore he is love first which would be true

For God so lovesd the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Yes he loves all but not all love Him. There's a word for this but I can't think right now God loves those who Love the Son. Jesus is the key to the Fathers love. Those who love the Son need to be interment with  Him. So its more than just saying I believe  

In John 3: 18     He that believeth on Him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already because he not believed in the name of the only  begotten Son of God. So there is a condition to have the benefit of Gods love.  

 

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On 11/23/2019 at 1:16 PM, Mike Mclees said:

If it were not for grace we would have no hope. Grace is the work of Gods compassion for while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. 

Absolutely.

Jesus is Grace.  The Blood of Jesus is God's Grace.   Jesus is God, so, its God who became a man, and shed Holy Blood to redeem man.

The 1st Adam created the "adamic  fallen nature" chaos, and Jesus as the 2nd Adam, a MAN, same as the first Adam,..... eternally once and for all RESOLVED = the SIN ISSUE that created the fall and is the exiting eternal barrier between sinful man and Holy God.

You've seen a chalk board?   You've seen an Eraser?    It erases chalk?  Well the CROSS is like a big Bloody Eraser, that erases all your SIN, once you have BELIEVED The Gospel, and become born again.

Where is your sin, if you are born again?   ERASED !!!!  

Jesus is the bridge Who Himself  eternally reconnects us BACK to God, .. = by restoring God's righteousness to us.

Salvation is the restoration of our Righteousness, that is God's Righteousness given to us as "the gift of Righteousness".

The "fall of A&E", is simply the loss of their first position as the righteousness of God.  So, God came here, became a man, and restores us BACK to our original righteousness position...... "in Christ"

WE are MADE righteous by God's eternal sacrifice on the Cross.  And what Jesus accomplished-finshed there is then presented to us, as """THE Gift Of Righteousness:::, that restores us back to original relationship. = BORN AGAIN.

This is the 2nd Adam, (Christ), restoring us back to our original place IN God..   Christ is God.  So, when we are "in Christ" we are again "in God',  "One".

You've read in Ephesians that you are "seated in Heavenly places, IN CHRIST........and that is a fact.   You, right now, if you are born again, are exactly where Jesus is, as you are IN HIM.  And that is exactly where you'll be for all eternity.....Wherever He is, YOU WILL BE.

WELCOME TO BEING BORN AGAIN.   !!

When we understand that all this is accomplished ONLY by God, then all the carnal theories and theological heresies that try to replace what God did for us with THEIR lists of "works" and STUFF......  we now can see the error in all this.... very clearly.

We as the born again should be consistently committed to living a life that is pleasing to God while understanding that we can do NOTHING OF OURSELVES to restore ourselves back to God, and so.... once restored BY GOD back to Himself, (Cross)  we can't do anything to undo this......so, in both cases, salvation is NONE OF US< and ALL OF GOD, thru Christ.

We are told to "seek first God's Righteousness"... and this is NOT OURS of Ourselves......We are not told to try to live right as a way to get God's righteousness.... As that is the Legalist Theology....Trying to be good enough to merit God's righteousness..... or trying to stay saved by lifestyle, which is also a FAIL.

"Seek first God's Righteousness", is to seek How GOD makes you righteous.....>Its not how YOU DO IT FOR YOURSELF.   as you CAN'T. 

Seeking first God's righteouness, is to be SAVED....is to Believe on Christ, is to do the work of God, which is to BELIEVE ON CHRIST, and be Born Again.

That is HOW you "seek = HIS........HIS......>HIS.........HIS.........>HIS.......Righteousness".......>Not yours.     Jesus is God's Righteousness.    The Cross and Christ as God nailed to it, is God's Righteousness.  

Are we any of this?   Can we do any of this? Did we do any of this?   SO THEN.... that is how you SEE what Righteousness IS< and what is can never BE.....It can never be US or our SELF EFFORT......NOT EVER.

See it?

 

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You mentioned predestination as to on whom he may apply His grace. Is He in the dark about who will receive Him?  His offer of salvation is true for the WHOLE WORLD, but He must  have known from the beginning who would receive His gift. His grace is extended universally, but only received by the free will of relatively few. I think the only condition of grace is that it must be received. 

Edited by Kristin

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MANS GRACE OR GODS GRACE AND ITS SUFFICIENCY 

TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men --2:12--teaching us-- that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world 

1 CORINTHIANS 3:10 according to the --grace of GOD-- which is given unto me as a wise masterbuilder I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon but let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon 

PROVERBS 24:3 through wisdom is an house builded and by understanding it is established --24:4-- and by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches --24:5-- a wise man is strong yea a man of knowledge increaseth strength

PROVERBS 8:14 ---counsel is mine --- and sound wisdom I am understanding I have strength 

2 CORINTHIANS 12:9 and HE said unto me --MY GRACE--is sufficient for thee for --MY STRENGTH--is made perfect in weakness most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of CHRIST may rest upon me 

PSALM 127:1 except THE LORD build the house they labor in vain that build it except THE LORD keep the city the watchman waketh but in vain 

ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to GOD --- and to the word of HIS GRACE --- which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among them which are sanctified 

1 CORINTHIANS 2:4 and my speech and my preaching was not with ---enticing words of mans wisdom--- but in demonstration of the spirit and of power--that your faith should not stand ---in the wisdom of man---but in the power of GOD 

PROVERBS 2:6 for THE LORD giveth wisdom out of HIS MOUTH cometh knowledge and understanding 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7 consider what I say and THE LORD give thee understanding in all things 

PROVERBS 21:16 the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead 

PROVERBS 18:21 death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof 

LUKE 8:10 and HE said unto you it is given to know the mysteries of ---THE KINGDOM OF GOD---but to others in parables that seeing they might not see and hearing they might not understand 

JOHN 14:6 JESUS saith unto him I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto THE FATHER BUT BY ME

JOHN 15:5 I am the vine you are the branches ---he that abideth in ME--- the same bringeth forth much fruit --- for without ME you can do nothing 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND OUR FATHER 

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God is not the God of Grace.

The default position (if you do not accept God into your heart) is Hell, not Heaven. One must work towards finding God's Grace, it will not come to you.

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On 11/22/2019 at 6:09 AM, Isaiah43:25 said:

A pastor I know has recently made the statement that God is a God of grace first. I haven't been able to speak with him about this yet, and that is a somewhat ambiguous statement. He said an author of a book discusses this, but i can't remember what book.

I have several questions I'd like to ask him to clarify what is means, especially the following:

  • What does this mean exactly?
  • What would he be a God of second?
  • What exactly are the implications of this?

As I've been pondering this, I seem to have come to the conclusion that grace is the exception, not the rule

Consider Matthew 7:13-14:  "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (NIV)

I understand that God has lavished extreme, overwhelming, wonderful, extravagant grace on us by forgiving our sins, you don't need to tell me that. The problem is that the majority of the 7.5 billion people currently living on this planet are destined for hell. And while God does show common grace (God makes the sun rise on the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and the unjust - Matt. 5:45), His saving or special grace is not the norm. 

I believe that God is Holy first and foremost, and just in everything that He does.

So my question is:  do you believe God is a God of grace first, or am I off base by concluding that grace is the exception, not the rule?

Hopefully this can be discussed outside of the predestination realm, but maybe that is the difference between these two thoughts. In one, God doesn't pick who is saved and therefore is holding out His grace to everyone hoping they'll receive it. And in the other He has picked who He is going to save which would make judgement the "rule" and grace the "exception". I would prefer to hear some thoughts that are outside of this predestination realm if possible.

Thanks!

It does not matter if grace comes first. Grace is an essential part of who God is.

 Grace is what saves us (Ephesians 2:8). Grace is the essence of the gospel (Acts 20:24). Grace gives us victory over sin (James 4:6). Grace gives us “eternal encouragement and good hope” (2 Thessalonians 2:16). Paul repeatedly identified grace as the basis of his calling as an apostle (Romans 15:151 Corinthians 3:10Ephesians 3:27). Jesus Christ is the embodiment of grace, coupled with truth (John 1:14).

https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-of-grace.html

Edited by missmuffet
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3 hours ago, Eman_3 said:

God is not the God of Grace.

The default position (if you do not accept God into your heart) is Hell, not Heaven. One must work towards finding God's Grace, it will not come to you.

Hi Eman

I agree with you that hell is the default position. But what do you mean that we have to work towards finding His grace? I believe the Bible clearly teaches that His common grace comes to us without us working towards finding it (Matt. 5:45), and that His salvific graces comes without us working towards it (John 15:16). 

How do you understand these verses if God's grace doesn't come to us by His own choosing?

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